Vampire counts problem

Discuss your tactics for the 8th Ed army book here.

Moderators: The Heralds, The Loremasters

Post Reply
Message
Author
Varkon
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Apr 16, 2014 7:57 am

Vampire counts problem

#1 Post by Varkon »

Greetings all

As a relatively new HE player i will be blunt. I keep losing to my Vampire counts opponent.

In a 2500 point setting he usually runs a lvl 4 caster Lord whom, mind you, kills everything it sets its eyes upon. So far i have encountered three strategies 1) The Lord accompanies a huge pack of skeletons or ghouls supported by crypt horrors (6 of them) and a corpse cart ridden necromancer behind that to buff the ASF 6" on them. 2) The Lord is delivered via a black knights bus into my Lord after which a rather short and ugly battle follows. or 3) a Lvl 4 master necromancer in a zombie bunker with hexwraiths, crypt horrors and loads of heroes. The master will buff them with van hells (re roll to hit) and hellish vigor (re roll to wound) with a corpse cart granting ASF on augment spells targeting it and bat swarms just to add to the misery.

In situation 3 i have been more successful as there is no killy lord to deal with. The other two situations my white lions and swordmasters usually get into combat facing the always strikes last rule (via the bat swarm) or facing always strikes first opponents (via the corpse cart) and SOMEHOW he always gets those damn crypt horrors into combat with my dragon princes and SOMEHOW they always survive, granting him enough time to finish off my lions and/or swordmasters so that his more killy stuff can join the fray from the side.

Any and all opinion will help and be appreciated!

Thanks
SpellArcher
Green Istari
Posts: 13841
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2008 11:26 am
Location: Otherworld

Re: Vampire counts problem

#2 Post by SpellArcher »

What list do you run?
Cold Phoenix
Posts: 218
Joined: Thu Oct 24, 2013 11:26 am
Location: ACT

Re: Vampire counts problem

#3 Post by Cold Phoenix »

It would help to have some more idea of your list, lord/hero choices, magic lore/s, size of your units and magic banners use would be a good start. It would also be good if you could tell us a little about how you setup the game. Do you play battleline? Or do you play other senarios like Dawn attack and watchtower? What sort of terrain do you use? When you deploy, do you settup 12" in from the board edge, or do you deploy in the middle of your deployment zone to give yourself room?

As for your problems, It sounds like you are having trouble with magic defence and with winning combat. There are 3 main ways to shut down his magic phase. 1) Dispell Everything for one magic phase using dice and a Dispell Scroll. 2) Kill his casters; when the casters include a vampire lord, this can be harder said then done, but if you pull it off, no more magic for him. 3) make him use his dice to dispell remains in play spells. If you can get Fiery Convocation off on his bunker, he can either cast as normal and watch half of the unit die each magic phase or use some of his dice (4-6) to save the unit. To know why you are having problems in combat, I'd need to know more about your list, his list and the tactics you both use.
The other two situations my white lions and swordmasters usually get into combat facing the always strikes last rule (via the bat swarm) or facing always strikes first opponents (via the corpse cart)
First, Giving ASL to a unit of White Lions or Swordmasters doesn't do anything. The've already got the rule because they use Great Weapons and multiple instances of it don't stack. Instead, they keep on fighting at their normal Initative. Secondly, We can give ASL out too, using a Frostheart Phoenix. If you bring a Pheonix along and get it into base contact with an enemy unit, all of the models in the unit apart from Vampires and/or Goul Kings should end up attacking after your High Elves.

Hopefully that helps.
User avatar
Tethlis
Posts: 1917
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2006 9:01 pm
Location: Bay Area, CA

Re: Vampire counts problem

#4 Post by Tethlis »

Yes, it's important to understand the rule interactions involved. ASL on a unit with great weapons does nothing, since they already have that rule and can't received it "twice". Also, ASF Vampire units against another ASF unit (like Phoenix Guard) means neither side gets re-rolls To Hit. This makes Phoenix Guard a great counter to the VC Lord. Between negating his re-rolls and using their Ward Save to stop him generating more Red Fury attacks, his killing power becomes minimal. If you can preserve your Dispel Scroll until a key combat round to prevent your opponent from helping his units via magic, you should be able to win a key round and cripple or destroy key units.
Warden of Tor Galadh
User avatar
Curu Olannon
Vindicated Strategist
Posts: 4929
Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2004 6:21 am
Location: Oslo, Norway

Re: Vampire counts problem

#5 Post by Curu Olannon »

It`s kind of hard to give advice without any context. A battle report or at the very least an army list would be a good starting point. Vampires struggle with our monsters, Star Dragon + Frostheart into a combat unit will tear just about anything apart.
Retired from Warhammer. Playing Warmachine & Hordes (Cygnar).

Follow me on Courage of Caspia, my blog.

Warhammer blogs from 2011-2015:

:: Path to Glory - High Elves Army Blog ::
:: Curu Olannon's Vindicators - 2500 points Army Blog (Old book, outdated) ::
Varkon
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Apr 16, 2014 7:57 am

Re: Vampire counts problem

#6 Post by Varkon »

yes, you are all right.

I run a dragon princes bus for my prince and noble (BSB) with the world dragon banner. My core is silver helms (10) and reavers (5). For special i tend to jump between phoenix guard or white lions. If i use both i end up with unit sizes of 20. I always try and get a lvl 4 caster in with dispell scroll.

two bolt throwers and a frostheart. my frostheart supports my princes bus. the bolt throwers target multiple wounds units e.g. crypt horrors or terrorgheist. The reavers try taking out chaff like direwolves and the silverhelms i don't actually know where to apply yet :/ .. my phoenix guard usually gets tarpitted by zombies or ghouls - invocation of nehek screws me there!

my opponents list usually looks something like this:

Vamp lord lvl 4 caster.
red fury
quickblood
talis pres
charmed shield
ogre or fencers blades.
HA
he'll have him in the ghouls or the black knights on a nightmare

a necro on a corpsecart spamming Invocation of nehek - with dispell scroll
a wight king or a vamp with BSB - usually next to the lord or in the infantry pack while his lord is on horse

lots of zombies for tarpitting.
recently he started using a horde of ghouls (supported by mortis engines)
dire wolves - somehow he redirects me every damn time.

crypt horrors are almost always seen in his list. 6 of them taking the brunt of my dragon princes assault.
bat swarms.
spirit host.
5 hexwraiths.

varghulf
terrorgheist ----> for the black knights focused list.

or

mortis engine
varghulf -----> for the ghoul horde focused list.


Magic almost never goes my way. i use either high magic or lore of light.
Griffon Prince
Posts: 538
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2005 3:05 am

Re: Vampire counts problem

#7 Post by Griffon Prince »

I'd be wary about relying on the PG ward save against a vampire lord as they tend to bring The Other Trickster's Shard about 90% of the time.
Morathi and Tyrion sittin' in a tree...ewwwwwww
User avatar
Curu Olannon
Vindicated Strategist
Posts: 4929
Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2004 6:21 am
Location: Oslo, Norway

Re: Vampire counts problem

#8 Post by Curu Olannon »

What it sounds like to me is that you´re running a number of units on their own, engaging 1-by-1 on all points and losing the war of attrition. This is fairly obvious, as High Elves are terrible at wars of attrition. You can probably work a bit on your list to improve its synergy and composition, but I would guess that this is not the main problem. Have you considered typing up a battle report? Perhaps even starting an army blog? ;)
Retired from Warhammer. Playing Warmachine & Hordes (Cygnar).

Follow me on Courage of Caspia, my blog.

Warhammer blogs from 2011-2015:

:: Path to Glory - High Elves Army Blog ::
:: Curu Olannon's Vindicators - 2500 points Army Blog (Old book, outdated) ::
Bashtrigger
Posts: 164
Joined: Sun Mar 23, 2014 4:53 pm

Re: Vampire counts problem

#9 Post by Bashtrigger »

My way of dealing with the Vampire Lord has always been to make sure he gets a Frostheart Phoenix in the same combat at all times. Without the rerolls to hit and at -1S, the thing is only half as scary. My Vampire Counts friend always says the Phoenix is his arch nemesis when playing vampire counts, there simply isn't a single other model or unit he is more afraid of in the entire game (he never builds his Lord with a magic weapon).

Note that a Vampire Lord with a magic weapon (Ogre Blade or Fencer's Blades) causes magical attacks, a unit with Banner of the World Dragon will laugh at such a Lord.

Then when you've lowered the Lords damage output, make sure your unit beats his at all times (Swordmasters vs regular infantry, White Lions against cav, Phoenix Guard against either) and beat him at the combat res game, then unstability will do the rest for you.

Any Necromancers trying to be funny can be dealt with by hunting them with your chaff (Great Eagles and Fast Cav are great for this)

Small arms fire helps to thin out his tarpits and RBT and sisters are great for mowing down the Terrorgheists, ethereals (sisters) and anything else with some more toughness (Varghulfs and the like)

All in all, I'm quite surprised you've got so much trouble with Vampire Counts, we should be the paper against their rock. We got some great things in our arsenal to ruin his day.
User avatar
Eltherion2
Posts: 100
Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2014 1:39 pm

Re: Vampire counts problem

#10 Post by Eltherion2 »

If you use High Magic I would go with Phoenix Guard (PG) as the Lore Attribute buffs their Ward Save and they cause Fear and get re-rolls to hit.

Arcane Unforging on the VC Lord should do a few wounds.

Fiery Convocation on the Ghouls

Your Silverhelms should do ok vs. Ghouls (once they are reduced in numbers by Magic and shooting) as the poison is negated by the 2+ Armor saves. But try to get into their flanks.

You could try re-directing the Vampire Lords unit with eagles or Reavers to keep it away from your expensive troops.
Highest Australian Ranking 31
2015 Club Championship (Runner Up)
2014: 2nd Place Barglecon II, 2nd Place Conviction (High Elves)
2013 Barglecon I Best General (High Elves)
2011 M.O.A.B 10th Place (Dark Elves)
2010 Devilcon 4th Place, Blood on the Reich 2nd Place (Skaven)
Post Reply