Sky Cutter

[henrypmiller]

Is it good? I want to use one. But £36!!!!!

Also: Why the **** cant the sea helm use the bolt thrower. I'm pretty sure the dark elf Bolt thrower chariot can have the Beastmaster? Surely this needs to be FAQ'ed or updated or something.

[Aceski]

Having used 2 for a little while with the bolt thrower. I think its a pretty toolbox unit which in the right lists is really useful. Flying charge gets into combats for added damage, and helps with chaff. The bolt thrower lets it kill Monster Cav while its sitting idle.

Some downsides,
- Can get ripped up by opposing RBTs in the mirror match (situational assuming your own chaff isnt dead).
- After the initial charge its not going to grind anything out.
- Not cheap, but I don't think its over costed either. I have killed many knights, and skull crushers with it. Freeing my RBTs to kill other targets.

You really need to play with them and get a feel for which army list they slot in best.
Definitely not as bad of a choice as people might lead you to believe. Just requires the right list and player.

[henrypmiller]

Thanks for the reply. Can I ask roughly what list you are using them with? Magic set up in particular.

[Nicene]

Love skycutter; I run two in my MSU list and am considering a third. I definitely don't recommend the bolt thrower "upgrade."

[henrypmiller]

Nice. MSU is kind of what i'm going to be going for with my new list. Thoughts on the Sea helm on the Sky Cutter?

I was thinking of running:

Sea helm BSB, Glittering scales, Sky Cutter. 220pts.

[Prince of Spires]

My first thought, without having tried him out, is that he is nowhere near durable enough. With only T3, 2W, 4+ 4++ he has a big bulleye painted on him. Being the BSB he is valuable and important enough to spend some effort on taking him down. If you're not doing anything else with the magic points, I would give him armour of caledor for protection (2+, 4+ ward, 2+ ward vs flaming attacks). Though I would personally also consider some kind of magic weapon. The spear only gets you so far after all.

Rod

[Elessehta of Yvresse]

I've been playing with a pair for a while now, and I've found them great. The Eagle Eye however, I think it's a bit of a waste, with Fly it's a great chariot, and not much more expensive than the Tiranoc. Hhm.... I think I need to try out a pair of Sky Cutters, and a pair of Tiranocs, they could be cool~

[endontoddy]

I would not recommend making a 'Cutter SeaHelm your BSB. It makes him too tempting target and he is just too fragile. He makes an excellent candidate for the Reaver Bow though, which I prefer to the mini bolt thrower anyway.

[Aceski]

Opposed to the popular opinion that the bolt thrower is rubbish. I suggest you try both with and without. I agree the 50 extra points on a pair could be valued else ware but its surprisingly useful in my experiences.

The throwers often get flank shots, and although hit on 4s usually (long range) sometimes 5s if moving. When they connect they kill those high armor targets effective. Smoking one crusher in a single shot has recouped over half the points before game end. That's before using the cutter for its more direct purpose, charging into things.

[Nicene]

Here's my reasoning behind deciding not to use the bolt thrower:

On average, I think my skycutter will shoot around 3 times per game (and this might be pretty generous). Assume it's in combat one round (hopefully more!), out of range/no good targets one turn (that 10" move doesn't seem like much when you actually go to do it), and dead one turn. I also assume 5+ on average, though you might get some 4+ shots and some 6+ shots (cover).

So this means, on average, one hit on a decent target per game. Wounding on a 3+, that's a couple wounds maybe. Against certain targets, that might be worth 25 points, and against others, it might not. Maybe you might find a lone high-priority target to shoot? This happened once when I caught a lone 100-point vampire and managed to hit it (failed to wound).

Consider, though, that you're also sacrificing two S3 shots! Along with a S4 ASF attack on the charge. To my mind, it's a bad investment. In 5-6 games, the bolt thrower never once paid off for me. I know this is a fairly small sample, but it got me thinking (which is when I got out my sliderule and did the math on the thing, and when I stopped taking the bolt thrower).

95 points is small enough to be a very versatile unit, but 120 is really pushing it I think, especially when you actually hurt its combat potential (which to me is by far its most important role).

And if you're focusing on positioning for a good flank shot, are you also positioning perfectly for a good countercharge? That seems unlikely to me.

[Prince of Spires]

I agree with your estimates on the bolttrower usage. 3 shots hitting on 5+ on average sounds about right. I don't think the 2 s3 shots are much of a sacrifice though. Even against prime targets (so hitting and wounding on 4+) those 2 shots will only cause a wound every other turn. And that is without taking armour or higher toughness into consideration. The s4 attack in combat is a different beast though. That can actually come in handy.

It then depends on how you value that bolttrower shot, which again then depends on the rest of your list as well. If you regularly find yourself up against multiwound models and run a couple of RBT in your list then their usefulness as force multiplier goes up very quickly. I once did the math on it somewhere I think. But basically the idea is that if you are shooting a 3w model with a RBT (single shot) it makes a big difference if you have already taken a wound (or 2 even) off the unit or not. With an unwounded 3w unit, a RBT is unlikely to penetrate to a next rank and completely kill a model. Killing the second model is even unlikelier. However, that situation reverses when the unit already has taken a wound. So against some monstrous cavalry a single RBT shot means a wounded model. Combined with a skycutter it can be 2 dead models.

Rod

[Andrew_uk]

I once got a flank shot with a single bolt from an RBT and took out 3 Ogres

funnier still was that another unit watched it get completely destroyed and ran for it

I say this because I recognise how unlikely it all was

[Bashtrigger]

Don't forget that taking that RBT on the skycutter can also be a budget way to have at least some answer to high armoured models, where the rest of your list might be lacking it. For instance in a list where you don't take regular RBT, you already want to include the skycutter, and you have something like lore of Life as your magic lore.

PS. I'm aware this would be inefficient listbuilding in the first place, but sometimes you just want to make a list tailored to certain awesome models you just painted, or to some awesome story you just made up, rather than the most efficient list you can think of.

[henrypmiller]

We also have to consider magic lore selection. If you are taking a high mage (or similar) and you can buff the BS of the Skycutter or similarly lower the T of your target your chances of doing significant wounds increase.

Currently trying to fit it in with a shadow Archmage and a shooty list. Maybe I will try and fit in a high mage to buff BS. Also debating a Metal mage for the +1 to hit and AP spell.

I wish we still had the curse of arrow attraction

[Nicene]

I wish we still had the curse of arrow attraction

Man I loved that spell.

[Zenfrozt]

I was chatting to my husband about this and he was suggesting using it as something akin to a slightly more agressive eagle? So using it for hunting war machines and flank charging something with the aim of breaking the unit during combat res?

[Nicene]

It's pretty slow for warmachine hunting. Though at least it's tougher and can shoot while it travels!

[Prince of Spires]

Definatly. Although I would more compare it to a tiranoc chariot then an eagle (since the main thing my eagles do is die gloriously when standing still in front of a rampaging horde...) It's a (bit) faster, harder hitting and flying version of a tiranoc chariot. It can be very useful if you need that one or two points of extra combat resolution or if you want to prevent a unit from combat reforming by charging it on a second flank.

Rod

[cptcosmic]

skycutter biggest asset is that it can fly and thus charge over stuff as long as it can see the target which makes it alot better than the tiranoc. a bit more killing power is just a bonus.

and if the bolt thrower is worth it or not is a different story but I think the chance to wound something during the turns you are not charging/fighting is well worth it. you receive some synergy with the proper lore too.

[Nicene]

If you think of what you're getting for 25 points (over the Tiranoc), it's a total steal really. Fly alone increases the ability of the model to fulfill its role by a huge margin. The extra inch of movement is good, but it's the flying charge and easier maneuverability that change everything in my opinion, as cptcosmic points out.

And then, the extra stats are a very nice bonus. 5 S4 attacks are way more useful than 2S4/2S3. And an extra bow shot, and a better save on the model which is sorely needed.


I think there might be magic synergies which would make the bolt thrower cost efficient. Still, I'd rather have 1/3 of an RBT or 1/2 of an eagle for those points.

[wamphyri101]

Ok so I have been running one for two tournaments and a few games so far and I am still not sold on it.

It’s a beautiful model and I that’s the main reason I field it.

I think the aim of using a skycutter is:

1: Don’t expect it to be game winning. Also don't expect it to survive 90% of games unless you.....

2: hold it back. Only fly it forwards if it is worth doing so, if not then leave it to shoot or hide to conserve the points

3: Its pretty good vs things like fast cav & skirmishers, even eagles. It’s great for flying behind your bolt throwers or archers then charging over them into a threat.

4: Cheaky flank charges on knights/other chariots works well

[henrypmiller]

Ran the skycutter with a sea helm for two games now. Set up

Sea helm
Skycutter
Glittering scales
reaver bow
BSB

First game was taken out by a doombolt on about turn 4 but I had already lost almost everything.

Second game it was pretty good. Hung back and took a few wounds off a doom wheel then combo charged with a lion chariot and finished it off. Killed some storm vermin. Then flank charged a unit of skaven slaves. Sea helm got killed by them scattering which was annoying. Failed my 4++ x2. The chariot then piled into the storm vermin/bell and helped finish off the unit.

My verdict after two games is that I like it. But you need to be careful and really plan with precision where it needs to be and when if you plan on getting it in combat.

I wouldn't bother running it without the sea helm though. The 4++ vs. shooting and the re-rolls on dangerous terrain is great. I also wouldn't have him as my BSB but my set up means I have to.

Really like the manoeuvrability and the flying move/charge.