How do you run your sisters?

[IgnobleElf]

Hi all,
Im currently painting up some Sisters of Avelorn, and am wondering how you all incorporate them into your lists. There are a couple ways I can see running them:
1) Small units (6 or so), with the primary goal of removing regeneration or doing some ranged damage to ethereals.
2) Larger units (14+ or so), possibly with a handmaiden, for a serious ranged threat, and a potent "stand and shoot".
3) Something in between
Would love to hear your thoughts and experiences!

[Bashtrigger]

I would personally never make them too big. It sounds great taking 14+ with a handmaiden, but if your opponent has any flyers he'll be able to nobrainer charge them into your block, if you instead take 2 groups of 7, hell have a harder time dealing with them and you maintain the same number of shots

Then again it also depends on your meta, but I always figure that taking smaller units of archers (or in this case sisters) is better, since you don't really want them to face combat anyway, and this allows you to direct shots to more targets, or the same amount of shots to one

And then I'm not even talking about the tactical advantage of having a smaller unit you can double up as a redirecter if you really have to without giving away too many points

[John Rainbow]

Hey IgnobleElf. Based on my recent experience I would say you need more than a single unit of 6. This could be either multiple units or a bigger unit. I have found that whilst 6 can strip regen from say a troll, your opponent knows this and will likely target them. They are easy to kill and surrender their ability to reliably get rid of regen pretty quickly if this happens.

[Bashtrigger]

Hey IgnobleElf. Based on my recent experience I would say you need more than a single unit of 6. This could be either multiple units or a bigger unit. I have found that whilst 6 can strip regen from say a troll, your opponent knows this and will likely target them. They are easy to kill and surrender their ability to reliably get rid of regen pretty quickly if this happens.

This is most certainly true too. Always field them in numbers so that it makes it hard for your opponent to make them flee, for example if you're thinking about taking 8, 9 is better because with 9 he will have to kill 3 man in stead of 2 etc.

There is nothing wrong with a bigger group if you take a Handmaiden, but then consider a magic lore that will augment them in combat as well (Shadow comes to mind) or risk having them stuck in a combat that keeps them busy for a few turns or beats them. After all, 24" is not such a large distance, so you will probably get charged soon'ish in the game

[Nicene]

For a 140-point handmaiden you could get 10(!) more sisters. I don't see her being useful unless you're capped on rare. Which I suppose many lists are these days.

I run one unit of 5 sisters. They always perform extremely well!

[Bashtrigger]

The Handmaiden will guarantee your stand and shoot (unless flanked or reared of course), will remove your movement penalty from shooting and will provide some high strength shots to deal with war machines, monsters, heavy cav and the like (using the standard build of reaver bow + potion of strength)

I personally wouldn't take her either unless I'm fielding a decent unit of sisters already

I kinda like my sisters in small units too, even if they get whacked, it'll still only net my opponent 70 points, plus if I've got 3 or 4 groups of them, he needs to have some serious amounts of shooting of his own to kill them all in quickly, always leaving some to deal with the regeneration and the like and if push comes to shove, they also make excellent redirecters, being only 70 points and possibly even getting a stand and shoot from it to boot

[SpellArcher]

Yeah, those three S8 shots hitting on 2's make the Handmaiden worthy of respect.

[Ferny]

I go with small units of 5-8 depending on how many points I have spare. In my recent MSU ventures I've gone 2x5 which I really like - if I can free up the points I'll do that in my 'normal' list. I tried the sisterstar once and got mauled by a hellcannon though I suspect it could work in better hands.

RE: handmaiden vs 10xsisters...well, in honesty, 10xsisters are tempting me more. I do love the reliability of the handmaiden with reaver/PoS, but there's so much redundancy given that I would be taking a BSB and if I don't go the mounted route (which I haven't really played around with yet) then I don't really know what I'd give him for utility - probably just protective items and risk using him more aggressively I guess.

[Nicene]

I kinda like my sisters in small units too, even if they get whacked, it'll still only net my opponent 70 points, plus if I've got 3 or 4 groups of them, he needs to have some serious amounts of shooting of his own to kill them all in quickly, always leaving some to deal with the regeneration and the like and if push comes to shove, they also make excellent redirecters, being only 70 points and possibly even getting a stand and shoot from it to boot

Unfortunately, we can only have a maximum of two units of sisters (unless you're fielding a Grand Army, of course!)

[Prince of Spires]

I think it depends on what you want your sisters to achieve, what your reason is for including them in your list.

If you only (or mainly) want them to remove regen from their targets so your other shooting can finish these targets, then I would bring a small-ish unit of 7-10. 5 or 6 can reliably deal with the regen wound, but they are relatively easy to reduce to a size where they don't. 7-10 are harder to get rid of or reduce to insignificance.

If you want more of a bowline army, I would sooner split them up into two of those units. 20 of them in 2 units backed up by RBT and archers make for a decent shooting phase.

Rod

[Bashtrigger]

I kinda like my sisters in small units too, even if they get whacked, it'll still only net my opponent 70 points, plus if I've got 3 or 4 groups of them, he needs to have some serious amounts of shooting of his own to kill them all in quickly, always leaving some to deal with the regeneration and the like and if push comes to shove, they also make excellent redirecters, being only 70 points and possibly even getting a stand and shoot from it to boot

Unfortunately, we can only have a maximum of two units of sisters (unless you're fielding a Grand Army, of course!)

Oops, I should go apologize to my friends, I have actually fielded 3 in a couple of games
It was just after the new book came out though, so I guess I was still thinking in the old rules

[Laniston]

I have had really good success using a unit of 20 sisters w/High sister and a Handmaiden with reaver bow. Initially my opponents didn't really know what to think about this unit until it started putting serious damage on just about everything. The quick to fire from the Handmaiden is fantastic. I usually take either the Lore of Life or High magic when running a unit like this and generally protect them as best I can because people do tend to gun for this unit. Hand of Glory has been fun to use on them also. Even if you only get one more BS you are still hitting on 2s for long range. Roll a 3 and watch your opponent's face get annoyed when you are hitting his unit in that pesky watchtower on 2s and rerolling to wound rolls. Priceless.
I find that even in combat they can actually do not too bad since they are weapon skill 5 and they still attack in 3 ranks. (I run them 7x3). But.. yeah they do die. It's handy to put a high mage with them. the ward save helps and they are a good bunker.

This has been my experience anyways.

[Bashtrigger]

I have had really good success using a unit of 20 sisters w/High sister and a Handmaiden with reaver bow. Initially my opponents didn't really know what to think about this unit until it started putting serious damage on just about everything. The quick to fire from the Handmaiden is fantastic. I usually take either the Lore of Life or High magic when running a unit like this and generally protect them as best I can because people do tend to gun for this unit. Hand of Glory has been fun to use on them also. Even if you only get one more BS you are still hitting on 2s for long range. Roll a 3 and watch your opponent's face get annoyed when you are hitting his unit in that pesky watchtower on 2s and rerolling to wound rolls. Priceless.
I find that even in combat they can actually do not too bad since they are weapon skill 5 and they still attack in 3 ranks. (I run them 7x3). But.. yeah they do die. It's handy to put a high mage with them. the ward save helps and they are a good bunker.

This has been my experience anyways.

That unit would do fine with lore of Shadow too. A Mindrazor will turn it into a WS5 murdering machine, while The Withering will make anything they shoot at die in droves. Squishy as it is, you can also protect it by prioritizing your opponents shooting units. And Melkoth's helps as well ofcourse

Your unit is actually the only example where I would take a Handmaiden. The girl is wasted on normal Archers and smaller groups. In such instances I'd rather just turn her into a BSB noble for the same points.

[Eltherion2]

I was running 2 x 10 Sisters units which gave me a lot of Battlefield control over Hexwraiths and troops with Regen.

Since playing in a lot of Swedish Comped events recently I have run 1 x 13. I am thinking of running a hand maiden with reaver bow kit with this unit.

[Meals]

Question for many of you as it pretty strongly weighs the argument one way:

You guys realise that a Handmaiden can't Multipleshot her Reaver Bow in a unit of Sisters, if the Sisters want to shoot too, right?

Multipleshot rules in the BRB are pretty specific on this. Everyone has to Multipleshot or noone Multipleshots, and Sisters do not have that rule...

[aquietfrog]

I think that rule applies if the whole unit has multiple shots. Otherwise, why bother offering brace of pistols/repeater pistols to handgunners' champion if all it does is shorten his range and he can't use the multiple shots when firing with the rest of his unit.

[Eltherion2]

Question for many of you as it pretty strongly weighs the argument one way:

You guys realise that a Handmaiden can't Multipleshot her Reaver Bow in a unit of Sisters, if the Sisters want to shoot too, right?

Multipleshot rules in the BRB are pretty specific on this. Everyone has to Multipleshot or noone Multipleshots, and Sisters do not have that rule...

If you read page 100 of the MRB under Characters and Units Special Rules.

"Unless otherwise noted in the text of the rule itself, a special rule applying only to a character does not apply to the unit, and vice versa."

So the way I read this is the Character shooting his Magical Bow does not affect the normal archers shooting their bows. However the character will still get the -1 penalty for Multiple Shots.

This seems to make more sense than because the character is firing his multi shot bow the rest of the unit cannot fire?????

Does anyone know of any rulings on this at Tournies etc...?

As aquietfrog says if all the unit has the multi shot rule aswell as the character then either they all fire Multi Shots or all fire single shots.

[Rexhavoc]

On my 50/50 shooty/CC list (not a gunline) I take one unit of 15 Sisters, 15 Archers, & 4 RBT's. Plus or minus the Handmaiden. Recently I ran a Heavens Mage with the intent of casting bubble Harmonic Convergence. What an amazing spell for maxed out RBT's and Sisters. Took out a Daemon Prince, a regen Chimera, and wounded a 2nd chimera in a single shooting phase. Not saying that would happen every time but I would have never pulled it off without the rerolls to hit and wound. It's pretty handy for a casting value of 12.
Enchanted blades is another great spell for Sisters. The AP stacks with arrows of Isha for -3 to armor vs Destruction.

[Bashtrigger]

Does AP actually stack? Seems to me it would be a duplicate of a special rule and hence only apply once.

[Rexhavoc]

Does AP actually stack? Seems to me it would be a duplicate of a special rule and hence only apply once.

AP does not stack. Sisters don't have AP. They have Arrows of Isha which grants a -1 one to Armor vs destruction. It does not grant AP. For that reason they are two different abilities that happen to have a similar effect. That would mean they can stack. No?

[Orien]

I have occasionally ran a 29 strong unit of sisters and added the handmaiden in there, in a horde formation. I supported it with two RBTs and selected a unit per turn to apply sustained fire to. Its fluffy, but most of all its effective, and is great for pressurising an opponent to change his tactics.

[Wicksi]

Does AP actually stack? Seems to me it would be a duplicate of a special rule and hence only apply once.

AP does not stack. Sisters don't have AP. They have Arrows of Isha which grants a -1 one to Armor vs destruction. It does not grant AP. For that reason they are two different abilities that happen to have a similar effect. That would mean they can stack. No?

Don't have the book infront of me but as my memory recalls it says you gain armor piercing against forces of destruction?

[Prince of Spires]

Don't have the book infront of me but as my memory recalls it says you gain armor piercing against forces of destruction?

Nope. "Models from forces of destruction suffer an additional -1 to armour saves against arrows of isha"

No mention of armour piercing, though it does do the same thing. Which means that it stacks with armour piercing.

Rod

[Orien]

The general wording in the HE book says that forces of destruction suffer a further -1 to their armour save, not that they have AP.

In a nutshell though AP as a rule itself applies to close combat attacks only, unless stated as being a rule attributed to a particulal weapon such as an RBT.

I'd say it doesnt stack.

[Prince of Spires]

The general wording in the HE book says that forces of destruction suffer a further -1 to their armour save, not that they have AP.

In a nutshell though AP as a rule itself applies to close combat attacks only, unless stated as being a rule attributed to a particulal weapon such as an RBT.

I'd say it doesnt stack.

The spell in question gives a clear exception to the close combat attacks only clause. Enchanted blades specifically mentions applying to all shooting attacks (as well as close combat ones) and giving armour piercing to those attacks.

So they stack.

Rod

[Orien]

Im typing on my iPhone hence the reply being a bit short. I'd be happy to accept a ruling in our favour but I'm not convinced that this is a "clear exception" as the wording isn't specific enough, in the sentence that matters, to mention shooting.

It says "All of their attacks" have AP however AP only applies to close combat unless their weapons are mentioned. In this case their longbows aren't mentioned. Is there a FAQ I've missed?

[Prince of Spires]

The complete spell rule reads (or at least the relevant parts):
"The target has +1 to hit with all shooting and close combat attacks... All of their attacks also ... have the armour piercing special rule".

All of their attacks also here refers to the kinds of attacks mentioned in the sentence coming before it. Therefor, the shooting attacks as well as the close combat attacks have the armour piercing special rule. So the wording does explicitly mentions shooting attacks.

Rod

[Rexhavoc]

The complete spell rule reads (or at least the relevant parts):
"The target has +1 to hit with all shooting and close combat attacks... All of their attacks also ... have the armour piercing special rule".

All of their attacks also here refers to the kinds of attacks mentioned in the sentence coming before it. Therefor, the shooting attacks as well as the close combat attacks have the armour piercing special rule. So the wording does explicitly mentions shooting attacks.

Rod

I agree Rod. It mentions shooting then repeats and says the AP applies to "All attacks". Shooting is a type of attack. I would even argue that it would apply to things like Breath Weapon attacks as well. It does say "all" after specifically mentioning shooting. I've only ever used it on CC and shooting though. Using it on BW seems a bit nonsensacle even though the wording seems to allow it. Well I really hope it does stack (and applies to shooting) or I'm going to feel really bad about cheating in several games (accidentally). Hell I've used enchanted blades on a LSG horde with the Handmaiden. Made a sizable difference and I may have lost that game without it since it was so close.

[Orien]

Fine by me if that is correct, I still think it could be worded better though, especially when the wording iof the AP rule is brought into consideration.

If I can have reservations about it as an Elf player, I'm sure my opponents may feel the need to object also.

Anyway... How much is a 40 strong sister horde again????

[Danidude]

I was wondering about something, when would you say it is more worth feilding sisters over Bolt Trowers?

When you have 3 Bolt trowers? less? or only when you have filled up on Bolt Trowers?