Ok, looking for advice for this weeks battle, havent fought this opponents WoC list before, i know he will be fielding at least 3/6 skull crushers and at least a L4 and L2 Caddy.
Im looking at
L4 Metal with the book
Noble - Bsb, Dragon Armour, Reaver Bow, Portion of strength
L2 dispel scroll - Possibly High or Life/heavens (unsure here)
28 Archers, LA
5 Silver helms/Shields
5 Reavers bare
17 Phoenix Guard FC, Razor Standard
18 Swordmasters FC, BOTWD - More attacks than White Lions
1 Bolt Thrower - Hopefully singleshot any daemon princes etc
15 Sisters - S4 with the additional AP1 is a must
Thats coming in on 2,000 points
i Like 2 big special blocks, and will be deploying 6" in, with the exception of the sisters and reavers.
Shoot as long as i can and then combat turn 2/3 and hopefully weaken them by combat.
Let me know any thoughts you have, thanks.
2,000pt Army vs WoC, Advice please
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Bashtrigger
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Re: 2,000pt Army vs WoC, Advice please
Since he is taking a lvl4, I figure he wont be using a daemon prince + double chimera combo on you, so then a shooty list will definately work wonders.
Personally I always find it a waste to use Swordmasters in deep units, so I might personally consider WL in such a group, if only for the stubborn, but it seems to me you already thought about that tradeoff and decided for Swordmasters which is still fine
Since you don't have a Handmaiden, I see no reason to field your sisters in one block of 15, might be better to take 3 units of 5, this gives you more drops, and therefore allows you to outdeploy your opponent easyer.
For your lvl2, I would go for a lore with good signatures. Beast, Heavens, Shadow or High Magic are the choices I generally go for
Otherwise seems like a decent list, watch out for Hellcannons though. If he packs some, deploy your bigger blocks very wide to minimize the pain when he lands hits, right untill the moment you think he will get into charge range.
I understand your choice of Metal and against WoC I would stick with it, but if you ever make a list like this with BotWD again, a nice trick to use is to go shadow on your lvl4 and place him in your archers and place your BSB in your unit with BotWD. Then when you misfire, the spell resolves first and you're allowed to swap with a character within 18", placing your Archmage into the BotWD group to give him a 2+ ward save against any wounds suffered from the misfire. The next time you succesfully cast a Shadow spell you can swap your Archmage back with your BSB again to get him safely in your Archer bunker.
Things he could take that would make your life difficult are: Daemon Prince, Chimera's, Hellcannons, Characters on steeds of slaanesh in Hellstrider units and tough things like either of the chariots and warshrines (but most WoC players don't use warshrines anymore these days) Maybe Lone Characters on Daemonic Steeds (which will usually have a 2+ ward save against flaming attack, so Metal doesnt work on them)
Good luck with your match!
Personally I always find it a waste to use Swordmasters in deep units, so I might personally consider WL in such a group, if only for the stubborn, but it seems to me you already thought about that tradeoff and decided for Swordmasters which is still fine
Since you don't have a Handmaiden, I see no reason to field your sisters in one block of 15, might be better to take 3 units of 5, this gives you more drops, and therefore allows you to outdeploy your opponent easyer.
For your lvl2, I would go for a lore with good signatures. Beast, Heavens, Shadow or High Magic are the choices I generally go for
Otherwise seems like a decent list, watch out for Hellcannons though. If he packs some, deploy your bigger blocks very wide to minimize the pain when he lands hits, right untill the moment you think he will get into charge range.
I understand your choice of Metal and against WoC I would stick with it, but if you ever make a list like this with BotWD again, a nice trick to use is to go shadow on your lvl4 and place him in your archers and place your BSB in your unit with BotWD. Then when you misfire, the spell resolves first and you're allowed to swap with a character within 18", placing your Archmage into the BotWD group to give him a 2+ ward save against any wounds suffered from the misfire. The next time you succesfully cast a Shadow spell you can swap your Archmage back with your BSB again to get him safely in your Archer bunker.
Things he could take that would make your life difficult are: Daemon Prince, Chimera's, Hellcannons, Characters on steeds of slaanesh in Hellstrider units and tough things like either of the chariots and warshrines (but most WoC players don't use warshrines anymore these days) Maybe Lone Characters on Daemonic Steeds (which will usually have a 2+ ward save against flaming attack, so Metal doesnt work on them)
Good luck with your match!
Re: 2,000pt Army vs WoC, Advice please
Many Thanks for the feedback, thats a nifty trick with shadow. (Never thought of this before)
Ive been using life for the last 2 games and has been excellent, but i know WoC are tough and really want to weaken them. I may well consider taking L4 Shadow and L2 metal and see how it pans out. Lots of thinking to do.
Yeah, since WL benefit against shooting, im putting the swordmasters in just for the higher WS and the extra attack.
Looking forward to tonights game, i'll let you know how it goes.
Ive been using life for the last 2 games and has been excellent, but i know WoC are tough and really want to weaken them. I may well consider taking L4 Shadow and L2 metal and see how it pans out. Lots of thinking to do.
Yeah, since WL benefit against shooting, im putting the swordmasters in just for the higher WS and the extra attack.
Looking forward to tonights game, i'll let you know how it goes.
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Bashtrigger
- Posts: 164
- Joined: Sun Mar 23, 2014 4:53 pm
Re: 2,000pt Army vs WoC, Advice please
Hope it goes well!
Oh please note that, High elves are only allowed 2 duplicates of rare choice (like everyone else) with the new army book, so my earlyer advise of using 3 groups of Sisters was illegal
It was only pointed out to me just a while ago on this forum, I can't remember cheating like that in a real game fortunately.
To make it up to you, here's another scary prospect I forgot to tell you about: A character with a 3+ ward save that rerolls ward saves of 1 on a disc of tzeentch (flying and very hard to kill) To be fair though, I don't think there are many things in existence in any army capable of dealing with those very well, other than maybe a tough lord with other trickster's shard. But one trick that works well is to just have a unit champion to challenge to minimize wounds on your unit and hope your static combat ress wins it for you (this works well against all lone characters).
I personally always like some strong lone characters with good saves to hammer units and threaten warmachines and shooters and the like when I play WoC, but maybe your friend has a wholly different playstyle than me.
Oh please note that, High elves are only allowed 2 duplicates of rare choice (like everyone else) with the new army book, so my earlyer advise of using 3 groups of Sisters was illegal
It was only pointed out to me just a while ago on this forum, I can't remember cheating like that in a real game fortunately.
To make it up to you, here's another scary prospect I forgot to tell you about: A character with a 3+ ward save that rerolls ward saves of 1 on a disc of tzeentch (flying and very hard to kill) To be fair though, I don't think there are many things in existence in any army capable of dealing with those very well, other than maybe a tough lord with other trickster's shard. But one trick that works well is to just have a unit champion to challenge to minimize wounds on your unit and hope your static combat ress wins it for you (this works well against all lone characters).
I personally always like some strong lone characters with good saves to hammer units and threaten warmachines and shooters and the like when I play WoC, but maybe your friend has a wholly different playstyle than me.
Re: 2,000pt Army vs WoC, Advice please
Hey it was a tough game, and we were both overly cautious.
He had L4 Nurgle, 5+ Channel Item, block 20 warriors
2 flying chariots, i gorebeast chariot, 3 skullcrushers, bsb, 3 headed flyer, hell cannon, 2 units dogs.
My shooting was poor, 28 shots re-rolling 1's could not take down that 3 headed flyer over 2 turns, then he flys and breath weapons my sisters,taking down 10. His chariots all were fleeing and rallied at the end of the game, pretty much costing me the draw.
His turn 4 his skullcrushers managed a long charge into the archers and he also got the gorebeast in as well, that pretty much cost me the game, my L2 was also in the unit and behind was the fleeing sisters, so that 1 charge cost me the game, my bolt thrower was redundant, didnt make its points.
Metal i didnt get plague of rust which was key for my tactics. ahh well, up next dwarfs, advice would be appreciated, havent read the new book nor played them.
He had L4 Nurgle, 5+ Channel Item, block 20 warriors
2 flying chariots, i gorebeast chariot, 3 skullcrushers, bsb, 3 headed flyer, hell cannon, 2 units dogs.
My shooting was poor, 28 shots re-rolling 1's could not take down that 3 headed flyer over 2 turns, then he flys and breath weapons my sisters,taking down 10. His chariots all were fleeing and rallied at the end of the game, pretty much costing me the draw.
His turn 4 his skullcrushers managed a long charge into the archers and he also got the gorebeast in as well, that pretty much cost me the game, my L2 was also in the unit and behind was the fleeing sisters, so that 1 charge cost me the game, my bolt thrower was redundant, didnt make its points.
Metal i didnt get plague of rust which was key for my tactics. ahh well, up next dwarfs, advice would be appreciated, havent read the new book nor played them.
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Bashtrigger
- Posts: 164
- Joined: Sun Mar 23, 2014 4:53 pm
Re: 2,000pt Army vs WoC, Advice please
Flying chariots?!?!?!
Anyway, the 3 headed dude you were talking about is that Chimera I warned you about, those are true killing machines if you don't manage to kill them fast
Against dwarves, the nasty things to watch out for are: Gyrocopters (Great Eagles with T5 that can use a str 3 breath weapon each turn
), War Machines (Banner of the World Dragon helps against these if he takes runes on them, because the hits will count as magical attacks), the new shooty guys (str5, decent BS and 2+ ward vs flaming attacks) and the new runes (of slowness?) that lowers your charge distance if you charge a unit with them.
On the bright side: you'll probably have a good magic phase against them, my friend at least uses a LOT less magic defence with the new dwarves than he used to with the old.
Maybe there is more, but that's all I know for now, haven't played against new dwarves a lot yet.
Anyway, the 3 headed dude you were talking about is that Chimera I warned you about, those are true killing machines if you don't manage to kill them fast
Against dwarves, the nasty things to watch out for are: Gyrocopters (Great Eagles with T5 that can use a str 3 breath weapon each turn
), War Machines (Banner of the World Dragon helps against these if he takes runes on them, because the hits will count as magical attacks), the new shooty guys (str5, decent BS and 2+ ward vs flaming attacks) and the new runes (of slowness?) that lowers your charge distance if you charge a unit with them.On the bright side: you'll probably have a good magic phase against them, my friend at least uses a LOT less magic defence with the new dwarves than he used to with the old.
Maybe there is more, but that's all I know for now, haven't played against new dwarves a lot yet.