A proper SISTER STAR.

Discuss your tactics for the 8th Ed army book here.

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Ferny
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Re: A proper SISTER STAR.

#31 Post by Ferny »

What's the benefit of one big sword block rather than two or three smaller ones (other than BotWD, although in smaller ones they'd have to play BotWD bingo :wink: ).
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Nagashias
Posts: 209
Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2013 6:13 pm

Re: A proper SISTER STAR.

#32 Post by Nagashias »

Ferny wrote:What's the benefit of one big sword block rather than two or three smaller ones (other than BotWD, although in smaller ones they'd have to play BotWD bingo :wink: ).
Here's a few reasons why to take a bigger rather than smaller block:

1. Point denial. Small sword Blocks tend to die - fast. 2 units of 10 - if you lose 10 in one unit, you lose half points. if you lose 10 out of 20 man big unit, you lose zero points.

2. Fighting other big units. Small sword units will get worn Down too quickly.

3. Rank bonus (and possible steadfast)

4. Easier to buff (only one unit, does not require bubble buff)


Just off my head - hope it helped :)
Asmodian
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:53 am

Re: A proper SISTER STAR.

#33 Post by Asmodian »

Perfection is more of just my goal. I think that old I listed in there was pretty dang close. A perfect list is a list that has a solid chance against all list, especially meta list. I am really not enjoying the power level of my white lion's against a lot of dark elf builds.
Meta lists dont have named characters. Meta is something like must have in specific army, or popular deployment of most usable/killy units. Teclis not fit to any meta.
I know I'm being a little obnoxious posting my build everywhere but I wouldn't be so zealous if people actually gave it a try. It's well rounded with the ability to fight any army and it's unique. You can find the full build in the army section but in here I am going to go over how to use BS shooting to decimate just about ANY army.
Conclusions in other thread concerning BS shooting are quite opposite to your ideas. My experience with HE shooting share other players opinion in this forum, that BS alone can`t be decisive. It is not matter of pure math - it is matter of deployment, terrain, enemy troop selection and so on. BS shooting can be only supportive - you can make pure shooting army, but i doubt that it will be competitive.

Comments on your armylists.
Teclis centered, shooting/deatstar combo. All of them are quite the same. They share weaknesses and strenghts.

Pros: Normal combos, non unique - so most of the players know how do you plan to use it(it can be Con - enemy will be aware how thouse units working). Deathstar. Strong shooting element(not stron enough to decimate ANY army - i have own experiences with HE BS shooting, and i disagree that you decimate ANY army).

Cons: Single character centered(Teclis) and general as heavy spell caster. Deathstar. Support very nicely done, optimal - but for optimal army list - not with this specialized army list. Heroes are not protecting Teclis from harm - and are very soft, making them also very nice target in combat.

Notes on Deathstars - usually, they need to be supported by some hitty elements. Your armies lack such - so in case of trouble, deathstar can be placed into undesirable combat and grind down using numbers or high A/model type of unit. You dont have support to add considerable CR to the fight and break such unfavourable combat, relieving your deathstar. Deathstars are quite big, so experience is needed to position them to combat, avoiding redirection and other nastiness.
Most of your lists are exposing poorly fighter - Teclis to be at the front rank of Deathstar. There are few tricks how to kill precious characters right in their deadly retinues. Your Teclis is not save. And he will be targetter - it is 20% of your entire points. And general bonus. Juicy target.

Can you make some armylist not based on Teclis, but on normal, not named characters? Maybe you can wrote down some more deployable armylist that can be heavilly tested in tournament environement?

P.S. topic was about sister star. I`m pretty sure, that i saw only one army ist with SoA. So, where are thouse stars? Whole discussion is offtop?
Drakova
Posts: 296
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:11 am

Re: A proper SISTER STAR.

#34 Post by Drakova »

Guys Enchanted Blades doesn't give ranged attack armor piercing I found out. So the sister star is a no go. Sad, I played a lot of games incorrectly that means. Without -3 to armor the build is heavily hampered. The Swordmaster build was kind of flop. White Lion's and Phoenix and vastly superior ill be sticking to them. The last build was kind of an experiment. I would say it didn't really work that well. This is what I am running now. I don't bother with buffing my archers anymore because no armor pen means it doesn't do well. I just cast final transmutation.

High Elf Perfection 2500

LORDS AND HEROES 605

Teclis 450
-Scroll of Hoeth
-Staff of Lileath
-Crown of Saphery
-Lore of Life: Flesh to Stone
-Lore of Light: Speed of Battle
-Lore of Death: Doom and Darkness
-Lore of Fire: Flamming Sword of Ruin
-Lore of Heavens: Harmonic Convergence
-Lore of Shadow: Okkam's Mindrazor
-Lore of Beast: The Amber Spear
-Lore of Metal: Final Tansmutation

Noble (Stryfe) 155
-battle standard bearer
-heavy armor
-lion cloak
-halbred
-Charmed Shield
-Reaver Bow
-Potion of Strength

CORE 625

22 Archers 250
-full command

15 Silver Helms 375
-full command

SPECIAL 730

50 White Lions 730
-full command
-Banner of the World Dragon

RARE 480

Frostheart Phoenix 240

Frostheart Phoenix 240

1 Great Eagle 60
-swiftsense

I will probably split the white lion's into a PG and white lions units like I had originaly. Also I found out Ive been charging my self 25 points then I should like a retard for Teclis. Which was nice as I get 25 points to play with. The archer buffing was doing pretty good but then I ran into a double stank list with 10 mother fucking demigryph and learned that enchanted doesn't give AP to ranged attacks. Therefore I couldn't do anything to his list and got massacred. Oh well... I am still rocking Mr. T tho. He is just so much more exciting than a shadow mage.
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Prince of Spires
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Re: A proper SISTER STAR.

#35 Post by Prince of Spires »

Drakova wrote:Enchanted Blades doesn't give ranged attack armor piercing I found out
I think I'm going to have to disagree here. Armour piercing normally only works in close combat (though it can work on shooting as demonstrated by the line "or shots fired"). But the wording of enchanted blades specifically mentions that "all attacks count as armour piercing". And this is after having mentioned all close combat and shooting attacks being all attacks.

Therefore, normal armour piercing doesn't works for shooting, enchanted blades does.

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Drakova
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Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:11 am

Re: A proper SISTER STAR.

#36 Post by Drakova »

As I really want to run enchanted with a range army ill go to the store and debate this with the people I play with. I think your are correct and they falsely dashed my hopes.
Csjarrat
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Re: A proper SISTER STAR.

#37 Post by Csjarrat »

biggest problem with this list is that 35 sisters cost £120, the average room price for a very nice hotel for a weekend away with the Mrs, or two nights in a B&B with the Mrs!
or in my case, 4 starter armies for infinity :-)
an interesting variation on my usual playstyle, which is 'charge forward, forward for the love of khaine, we can fight better than any of them and they can't shoot into melee why is our armor so thin ohgodcannons'
Asmodian
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:53 am

Re: A proper SISTER STAR.

#38 Post by Asmodian »

I dont think, that they have neccesary models for lists presented here :wink: Proxies and Mathammer are not problematic at all.
biggest problem with this list is that 35 sisters
Is that they are still quite soft in melee. One proper cav charge with HtH character in it and i dont see sister deathstar winning anything. Also, with the list above, there is no sisterstar - but only 3 quite big units and 2 unridden monsters - perfect army for either shooty/artillery army like Dwarf/Empire or HtH army with lots of chaff/redirectors.
Bashtrigger
Posts: 164
Joined: Sun Mar 23, 2014 4:53 pm

Re: A proper SISTER STAR.

#39 Post by Bashtrigger »

Drakova wrote:
Sackree wrote:One dwellers below/ final transmutation and half of that "high elf perfection" is gone. Far too many points in one basket for a unit the opponent never has to engage.

In theory Ill be able to punish anyone who is spamming dwellers because that means they are not rushing into combat. I got a lot of shooting myself. While those spells are scary I do got a chance to remove it from the game and then they would be screwed. Yeah it's a problem but I don't think this army would auto lose if 1 dwellers went of and 30 swordmasters died. There is a good chance ill shut down any spell like that with Teclis untill it's to late. Str 1 Teclis, dwellers always was a problem even before I made a 60 man unit. It hasn't gotten through yet but there will be that game where it gets IF and Teclis dies and Ill lose like turn 2. I think my list is just as vulnerable to dwellers before because of Teclis. Well I use to out range 24 usually with Mr. T since I just need to buff my own so I can see the swordmasters being range every turn to get blasted by dwellers.

And doesn't Teclis have that forget scroll anyway? My friends don't allow me to play with Teclis, I haven't even been allowed to try him out with the new rules :(

Besides, you should change the topic of this whole thread to how to abuse Teclis to the max, because it seems to me that the core focus of your army is how to maximize your magic fases. You could substitude any of your units, take different spells on teclis that augment these units and start a whole new thread :lol:

It's a nice find though, makes me want to whack my friends with him =D>

edit: whoops you did mention the scroll, I was just to lazy to read properly
Nicene
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Re: A proper SISTER STAR.

#40 Post by Nicene »

I liked the concept of your shooting list.
[url=http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=61399]my MSU army list/battle reports[/url]

[quote="Nyeave"]Omg it's a parrot chariot - a parriot... :D[/quote]
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