Interaction of Light of Battle and Terrogheist Screams.

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Cold Phoenix
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Interaction of Light of Battle and Terrogheist Screams.

#1 Post by Cold Phoenix »

I was looking at this topic How to beat VC? which talks about dealing with a Scream/Zombie/Vargheists heavy list and I was suddenly struck by a burning desire to find out if the Light of Battle spell in the Lore of Light will protect against Terrogheist Screams. If you think about it for a minute, Terrogheist Screams (as far as I remember) cause the target to take a LD test on 2D6 + the number of wounds left on the Terrogheist (which is 6 initially). The target then takes a number of armour ignoring wounds equal to the amount it failed the test by. However, the Light of Battle Spell causes affected unit to automatically pass LD Tests. Does this mean that a unit affected by Light of Battle is immune to Terrogheist Screams and that bubbled Light of Battle creates a 24" bubble of Scream immunity? Everything I can find suggests that it does, but I don't have the VC army book.

Can anyone see a flaw in this chain of logic?

Edit:

I'm approaching this from a tactical point of view, so I posted it in the tactics section, but if a mod wants to move this to the rules section, I don't mind.
Nicene
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Re: Interaction of Light of Battle and Terrogheist Screams.

#2 Post by Nicene »

Yeah, I'd think it would work similarly to Daemonic Instability: take a leadership test with some penalty, lose wounds based on how big you fail. Does Light of Battle protect Daemons from unstable tests?

I don't have their books, but if the wording is "take a leadership test," then sure in both cases. If it's more like "roll 2d6, add the terrorgheist's wounds, snd subtract your leadership," then no. But I'm sure someone here knows the answer.
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Struthy
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Re: Interaction of Light of Battle and Terrogheist Screams.

#3 Post by Struthy »

The screams are not LD tests.
Loucipher
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Re: Interaction of Light of Battle and Terrogheist Screams.

#4 Post by Loucipher »

As much as I'd like to answer the original question with "Yes", I'm afraid that the correct answer is "No."
The Light of Battle enables the affected target to automatically pass all Ld tests until the start of the caster's next Magic phase. However, the exact wording of the Death Shriek damage resolution reads:
"To resolve a Death Shriek, roll 2D6 and add the number of Wounds the Terrorgheist has left. For example, a Terrorgheist with 4 remaining Wounds would roll 2D6 + 4 . For each point b y which the result exceeds the target unit's Leadership, the target unit suffers 1 Wound with no armour saves allowed. A Death Shriek is a magical attack and Wounds suffered from it are distributed as from shooting."
As can be seen from the wording, no Ld test per se is taken by the defender. Thus, no immunity is granted by the Light of Battle spell. The defender's Ld is simply compared versus the 2D6+W result, in order to determine how many wounds are inflicted by the Death Shriek. If the rule said the defender should test his Ld, and suffer wounds if failed, then the spell would grant such an immunity (as any required Ld test would have been automatically passed).
Note, however, that any Magic Resistance, or a Ward save against magical attacks (such as the one conferred by the Banner of the World Dragon), will work normally against this kind of attack, since the wording says clearly that the attack is a magical one.
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Struthy
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Re: Interaction of Light of Battle and Terrogheist Screams.

#5 Post by Struthy »

Loucipher wrote:As much as I'd like to answer the original question with "Yes", I'm afraid that the correct answer is "No."
The Light of Battle enables the affected target to automatically pass all Ld tests until the start of the caster's next Magic phase. However, the exact wording of the Death Shriek damage resolution reads:
"To resolve a Death Shriek, roll 2D6 and add the number of Wounds the Terrorgheist has left. For example, a Terrorgheist with 4 remaining Wounds would roll 2D6 + 4 . For each point b y which the result exceeds the target unit's Leadership, the target unit suffers 1 Wound with no armour saves allowed. A Death Shriek is a magical attack and Wounds suffered from it are distributed as from shooting."
As can be seen from the wording, no Ld test per se is taken by the defender. Thus, no immunity is granted by the Light of Battle spell. The defender's Ld is simply compared versus the 2D6+W result, in order to determine how many wounds are inflicted by the Death Shriek. If the rule said the defender should test his Ld, and suffer wounds if failed, then the spell would grant such an immunity (as any required Ld test would have been automatically passed).
Note, however, that any Magic Resistance, or a Ward save against magical attacks (such as the one conferred by the Banner of the World Dragon), will work normally against this kind of attack, since the wording says clearly that the attack is a magical one.
You wouldn't get the magic res bonus on the scream as magic res only works on wounds from spells.
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Loriel
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Re: Interaction of Light of Battle and Terrogheist Screams.

#6 Post by Loriel »

Light of Battle aids against Tomb Kings Casket of Souls, so at least some use there ;)
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Loucipher
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Re: Interaction of Light of Battle and Terrogheist Screams.

#7 Post by Loucipher »

Struthy wrote:You wouldn't get the magic res bonus on the scream as magic res only works on wounds from spells.
Whoops, my bad. I had the impression it was "wounds from magic attacks".
BotWD still works, that's the good part in it. If a hero or an Archmage (Ld9) is in the unit, the fully healed Terrorgheist would inflict 4 wounds on the average (7+6-9=4), with 2++, you stand a decent chance of losing no one.
Terrorgheist is a bane of smaller units which don't have heroes in them - a good dice roll obliterates the unit.
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Cold Phoenix
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Re: Interaction of Light of Battle and Terrogheist Screams.

#8 Post by Cold Phoenix »

As much as I'd like to answer the original question with "Yes", I'm afraid that the correct answer is "No."
The Light of Battle enables the affected target to automatically pass all Ld tests until the start of the caster's next Magic phase. However, the exact wording of the Death Shriek damage resolution reads:
"To resolve a Death Shriek, roll 2D6 and add the number of Wounds the Terrorgheist has left. For example, a Terrorgheist with 4 remaining Wounds would roll 2D6 + 4 . For each point b y which the result exceeds the target unit's Leadership, the target unit suffers 1 Wound with no armour saves allowed. A Death Shriek is a magical attack and Wounds suffered from it are distributed as from shooting."
That's a pity, but it did seem a little to good to be true.
Loucipher
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Re: Interaction of Light of Battle and Terrogheist Screams.

#9 Post by Loucipher »

The upside is that it is fairly easily to dispose of the Terrorgheist. It has neither armor nor ward save (6+ regen is its only refuge, but that's easily taken care of by flaming attacks), and it's not impossible to wound it with, say, a Phoenix, a well-placed Eagle Claw's bolt, some decent spell, or a charge of a sufficiently heavy-hitting unit.
Our Frosty, for example, hits the big bat on 3+ and wounds on 4+, with 6+ regen. Conversely, the Terrorgheist hits the Frosty on 4+, but wounds on 6+ only (he's S4 only due to Blizzard Aura), and the Frosty has 5++. Both pull in 4 Attacks at equal Initiative, but Frosty goes first (the TG is ASL due to Blizzard Aura). Calculate the odds, or you're buying? :)
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NexS
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Re: Interaction of Light of Battle and Terrogheist Screams.

#10 Post by NexS »

Loucipher wrote:"To resolve a Death Shriek, roll 2D6 and add the number of Wounds the Terrorgheist has left. For example, a Terrorgheist with 4 remaining Wounds would roll 2D6 + 4 . For each point b y which the result exceeds the target unit's Leadership, the target unit suffers 1 Wound with no armour saves allowed. A Death Shriek is a magical attack and Wounds suffered from it are distributed as from shooting."
As can be seen from the wording, no Ld test per se is taken by the defender. Thus, no immunity is granted by the Light of Battle spell. The defender's Ld is simply compared versus the 2D6+W result, in order to determine how many wounds are inflicted by the Death Shriek. If the rule said the defender should test his Ld, and suffer wounds if failed, then the spell would grant such an immunity (as any required Ld test would have been automatically passed).
Note, however, that any Magic Resistance, or a Ward save against magical attacks (such as the one conferred by the Banner of the World Dragon), will work normally against this kind of attack, since the wording says clearly that the attack is a magical one.
Reading this makes me fear terrorgheists less! So thank you.
Most Elven armies have a general at LD 10, and seeing that the average on 2D6 is 7, that's only going to be a few wounds provided the unit isn't out of the inspiring pres :)
Happy Days! However, they can scream as often as they like though, can't they?
Regards,
Brad
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Loucipher
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Re: Interaction of Light of Battle and Terrogheist Screams.

#11 Post by Loucipher »

NexS wrote:Reading this makes me fear terrorgheists less! So thank you.
Bear in mind, I was proven wrong about Magic Resistance providing ward save against this attack. All else still stands, though. Any regular ward will work as well (only armour saves aren't allowed).
NexS wrote:Most Elven armies have a general at LD 10, and seeing that the average on 2D6 is 7, that's only going to be a few wounds provided the unit isn't out of the inspiring pres :)
Correct. A unit within the Ld10 General's Inspiring Presence radius would suffer 3 wounds on the average (7+6-10=3) from a fully-healed TG.
NexS wrote:Happy Days! However, they can scream as often as they like though, can't they?
Once per Shooting phase, even if marched, charged or engaged in close combat. The attack is made against a single unit within 8" of the TG (TGs engaged in combat can only scream at the unit in base contact).
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NexS
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Re: Interaction of Light of Battle and Terrogheist Screams.

#12 Post by NexS »

Loucipher wrote:
NexS wrote:Reading this makes me fear terrorgheists less! So thank you.
Bear in mind, I was proven wrong about Magic Resistance providing ward save against this attack. All else still stands, though. Any regular ward will work as well (only armour saves aren't allowed).
NexS wrote:Most Elven armies have a general at LD 10, and seeing that the average on 2D6 is 7, that's only going to be a few wounds provided the unit isn't out of the inspiring pres :)
Correct. A unit within the Ld10 General's Inspiring Presence radius would suffer 3 wounds on the average (7+6-10=3) from a fully-healed TG.
NexS wrote:Happy Days! However, they can scream as often as they like though, can't they?
Once per Shooting phase, even if marched, charged or engaged in close combat. The attack is made against a single unit within 8" of the TG (TGs engaged in combat can only scream at the unit in base contact).
Excellent. So if we charge him and he flees then consequently rallies, he can do it again provided there is an unengaged unit within 8", or is it like all shooting where only fast cavalry can shoot after rallying?
Regards,
Brad
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Stormie
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Re: Interaction of Light of Battle and Terrogheist Screams.

#13 Post by Stormie »

No undead model in the game will be fleeing ever, yikes!

But yeah, as long as you have a unit with BotWD then you are pretty much set vs Vampire Counts. I've had games against the Vamps where my opponents have basically given up as soon as they've seen that all of their tricksiest tricks won't work on my key unit (Death snipes, Vampire Lords with extra attack swords and Red Fury, Terrorgheists, Banshees, etc.). Although I think that's a bit of an unfortunate over-reaction it does go to show that we shouldn't be too worried by VC these days. They, like, have to rely on valid tactics to win!
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Re: Interaction of Light of Battle and Terrogheist Screams.

#14 Post by NexS »

Stormie wrote:No undead model in the game will be fleeing ever, yikes!
Good point haha. I don't know too much about them really! I feel that it would be fun to play against them because they have lots of crappy troops, but their characters are amazing. Gives you something to work with!
Regards,
Brad
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