The viability and use of the Tiranoc Chariot

[Overread]

So I've wound up with a surplus of Chariot models (only way to get a reliable number of cats for my silver helms).

As a result before I sell/trade extra chariots I've a mind to explore the use and concepts of the Tiranoc as much as I can; least I end up wanting to purchase more in the future having already traded away what I have now.

From I've read around in general the Tiranoc Chariot is considered lackluster as a general view point.

Eagles are preferred as a flanking threat or warengine/mage hunting.
The lion chariot is also preferred as a more heavy hitting chariot.

From what I can tell the Tiranoc's position is to be in small groups of 2 to 3 chariots moving around the battle field fast with a view to supporting attacks by flanking enemy units. Barring a themed army there also isn't much current reason to take them in multiple groups on the table top.

I've also not read of anyone using them as a base for a lord/hero/mage.

So it would seem that they are not currently a very popular choice within the game in the current rules and codex and that as a result one would be unlikely to field more than a handful at a time. So my view is that 3 chariots would be enough to have in a collection for general army building. That gives the option to run a full group if wanted. A 4th one might be considered if only to allow two groups of two on the table at the same time (though I've a feeling that people will suggest that there are better uses for the points).

[Ferny]

I'm planning to either add cold ones and use them as Dark Elf chariots or magnetise the animals/crew and use them for anything (conceivably WoC or goblins both use chariots). I don't play any of those armies but I like the idea of being able to spread the forces from one across others.

But yeah, I think there are a few topics on this dotted around but I haven't really mastered the search function on here, but I think chariots are generally not taken in favour of more exciting special options.

[Cold Phoenix]

There was an army blog/battle report thread a while back by Arhain called Approach to Balance: Update. It's been inactive since the end of Aug 2013, but does have a couple of Battle reports which included a unit of 3 Tiranoc Chariots. I was interested at the time because the new Dark Elf book had just given my primary opponent's army ASF and Impact hits seemed a good way to deal with the change.

[Jerroii]

The most useful setup for me is to run single chariots. This gives them extra mobility (they are allowed to pivot) and because of their high charge treat range they are ideal used on the weaker flank where you want to slow the enemy down, while your stronger flank does the fighting.

[Overread]

Thanks for the input guys!

Cold Phoenix- that battle report series seems to summaries what I've been finding in reading rather well. Not a bad unit overall, but when it comes to fitting everything in the high points cost tends to get the unit cut down a bit. Still a unit of 3 still seems very viable.

[pk-ng]

Chariots work in very niche lists. They are good at 2 things
1) Force multipler
2) Defender

1) In conjunction with an infantry block they can assist in producting Combat Res and minimising attacks back on it.
2) Since they are M9 with Swiftstride they can help defend RBTs from your opponents fast units.

[rking300]

I use two chariots in my tournament list that has done quite well. Taking them as a single model vs a unit is key. I use them for multiple roles. Since my list is all cav and flyers I place my chariots in the center and all else on one or two sides depending on how my opponent deploys. People dont like chariots and have a tendancy of at time shooting them vs my frost chickens. I also use them as redirecters to save key units since they can reform any which way. Give the other player alot of look at and think about. I do also take one eagle for the usual eagle purposes.

[Nagashias]

No matter their viability, I am going to try 3 of them out in an infantry based list centered around a Loremaster

[Nicene]

I don't think you should have more than one in a single unit. But I think a single Tiranoc is pretty sweet and very versatile! I also probably wouldn't have more than one in an army of any size.

[cptcosmic]

is there a good reason to actually use the tiranoc as single chariot over the skycutter beside lack of points?

skycutter gets 1 more crewmen, better mount and has fly speed for just a few more points.

[Ben E. Violent]

Skycutter. I was going to join the conversation the other day but for some reason didn't post.

I was going to say if you want the chariot, for typical charioty things, you might as well spend the extra 25 points and give it 5 strength, flying, a extra STR attacks and an extra crewmen. This is strictly from a viewpoint who has played with neither, though. So, I dunno.

I betcha either chariot would be a definite boost when playing against Dark Elves.

[Arhain]

There was an army blog/battle report thread a while back by Arhain called Approach to Balance: Update.

Life took over and I had less time to keep playing You might have just given me the inspiration to update the thread and keep going with it though.

Single Tiranocs work great as chaff guards for your back lines and support units. I throw to have one in an army if I have the points, because they work well for what they do. Never expect them to obliterate your opponents army, they are purely support. I think people forget that and become frustrated with them, but I think they fill their role quite nicely.

As for the units, I took the unit of 3 mainly because it looks incredible on the board. You lose their maneuverability when you have more than one, but position them well during deployment and they can really mess with your opponents head.

[Overread]

Arhain - a good point on the support - I think a lot of people get into number crunching too much and get hooked on the theory that each unit on the board must be a one unit killing machine. Worthy to put down only if it can kill back its points and more alone. Support is underrated in general

[Eirik]

I'm planning to either add cold ones and use them as Dark Elf chariots or magnetise the animals/crew and use them for anything (conceivably WoC or goblins both use chariots).

You can smear instant coffee grounds on the chariot when you use it for gobbos. This gives it the appearance of being filthy and unkempt, a salvaged chariot owned by a savage army. It also makes it smell funny, as goblin's things do. Then you can dunk it in water to clean it later.

[Zefiris]

On Charge:
Tiranoc 70pts
2x str4
2x str3
d6 str5
vs
Skycutter 95pts
5x str4
d6 str5
Flys
vs
Lion 120pts
2x str6
2x str5
d6 str5
Fear

On a non-charge or subsequent turns:
Tiranoc 70pts
4x str3
vs
Skycutter 95pts
3x str3
2x str4
flys (does nothing when combat locked but useful when you decide to flee)
vs
Lion 120pts
2x str6
2x str5
Fear

Well chariots are a piece of killing machine but subject to randomness (similar to magic missles/fireballs), but what matters more is how you use them (ie know how to move them in conjunction with other units/terrain/enemies etc)

Yea a single is more of a support unit,
While a unit of 3 is like a unit of SilverHelms in a 2x5 formation in attacks or 2x6 if you want to compare wideness.
It is too bad we cannot have a noble in a formation of 3 chariots (unless there is an errata/faq somewhere which I missed)

On a side note: I don't know why the Tiranoc chariot does not have an option to have a bolt thrower mounted on it while the skycutter can. I myself refuse to use the skycutter for ramming attacks, and only to use it as a mobile bolt thrower platform.

On Charge
3x Tiranoc 210pts
6x str4
6x str3
3d6 str5 (min of 3, max of 18)
vs
2x5 SilverHelms 210pts
10x str5
5x str3

On a non-charge or subsequent turns:
3x Tiranoc 210pts
12x str3
vs
2x5 SilverHelms 210pts
15x str3

Chariots are almost = to Silverhelms on charge, same amount of attack on the low end with crappier attack but can top silverhelms on the high end, but cannot take hits (lower def and lower attacks, but they need to take 4 wounds before dieing)

[Nicene]

On Charge
3x Tiranoc 210pts
6x str4
6x str3
3d6 str5 (min of 3, max of 12)
vs
2x5 SilverHelms 210pts
10x str5
5x str3

Great breakdown, but check: chariots would be min 3, max 18 str5 hits (average of 11), while silver helms are 10x str5 attacks (against most foes, this will be around 7-9 hits, depending on their WS). So I'd say the Tiranocs are definitely much more powerful on the charge. Also, they are able to land all of their damage onto a single 50-wide target, while the silver helms are not. Of course, they're more likely to take wounds in return, and they're just a bit weaker on subsequent rounds. And they take up more space/can't reform effectively/all other kinds of issues. Of course, who takes units of 10 silver helms without characters, when 5-6 is so nice? So maybe it's not a great comparison after all.

Haha, I just had a funny thought: 3 Tiranocs in conga line. You'd get supporting attacks from the second AND third rank! (not suggesting this, but it's funny to think about the spears reaching that far). Well, a maximum of one per model I suppose.

[Zefiris]

On Charge
3x Tiranoc 210pts
6x str4
6x str3
3d6 str5 (min of 3, max of 12)
vs
2x5 SilverHelms 210pts
10x str5
5x str3

Great breakdown, but check: chariots would be min 3, max 18 str5 hits (average of 11), while silver helms are 10x str5 attacks (against most foes, this will be around 7-9 hits, depending on their WS). So I'd say the Tiranocs are definitely much more powerful on the charge. Also, they are able to land all of their damage onto a single 50-wide target, while the silver helms are not. Of course, they're more likely to take wounds in return, and they're just a bit weaker on subsequent rounds. And they take up more space/can't reform effectively/all other kinds of issues. Of course, who takes units of 10 silver helms without characters, when 5-6 is so nice? So maybe it's not a great comparison after all.

Haha, I just had a funny thought: 3 Tiranocs in conga line. You'd get supporting attacks from the second AND third rank! (not suggesting this, but it's funny to think about the spears reaching that far). Well, a maximum of one per model I suppose.

Ah thanks for the correction.

Well maybe the better comparison is 7 DragonPrinces.

3x Tiranoc 210pts
6x str4
6x str3
3d6 str5 (min of 3, max of 18)
vs
7 DragonPrinces+Chap 213pts
15x str5
7x str3

[Vermillion]

Have used wolf chariots in the past to great effect as chaff, think the tiranoc would work just as well in that role. It's chaff duty was simply to impact hit and then (hopefully!) kill other chaff units, and then used as a flank charge/support. One of the best things one managed was impact hitting a small unit of SM away overrunning into another, leaing a couple alive to kill them in combat (yep oppoonent was that unlucky ).

I think the tiranoc would have potential in this role however suffers because reavers are core and fast cav, eagles have flying and shadow warriors are a nice skirmishing unit of chaff that are flexible.