Some Thoughts on Star Dragon

[Lord Anathir]

Well, I think it very much is Star Dragon vs Magic for our lord slot again. I did play about half a game vs Dwarfs and the star dragon got BETTER in CC.

-normal dragon attacks
-prince now has ASF rerolls
-thunderstomp d6 st6
-one use flaming attack in CC
-lore of life healing from 2 lvl2s.


Really the only thing hampering the drag is TLOS and the fact it cant hide from warmachines. Also if the prince kills a unit champ in CC the drag cant attack.

That said, there are a handful of armies that have the artillery to put some serious hurt on it. Empire, dwarfs (obviously) but also orcs, warriors and bretts. With stone throwers getting only slightly weaker and still st9 d6 wounds under the whole you can lose your dragon very quick. Orcs can spam bt and st easily now, and who wouldnt. Anyone who has access to non BS warmachines will basically max them out.

Really the dragon can now literally charge headfirst into a ranked infantry unit and come out on top. Ok, the first round he kills the champ he will be suffering a break test on negatives (unless you charge a unit of DP with a champ to soak up the challenge). But after that he can really grind down a block fast. With rank bonus coming after combat there isnt much who can stand up to him. That said, I did lose him to a unit of 24 slayers, but not after he rolled well, and I forgot my 1 use only flame attack and after I couldve flanked with DP and didnt AND after I wiped his whole unit out in cc that same turn.

But the non warmachine armies (lizards, HE, DE, WE, VC, maybe tk) really got nothing on him. Its tough to decide between him and magic. Magic is going to be important no doubt, but I have to say if I had a lvl4 and I came up agianst a SD or double dragon HE list I dont like my chances.

[Prince of Spires]

I'm not sure exactly how terror changed this ed, but I think that it got worse as well. So for a dragon to be effective it needs to be in combat. Maybe not huge on the SD (as it is build for combat), but definatly for the baby dragon.

A thing that got better I think is the +2 strength with a GW. Give this to a prince and he has a reasonable strength and still lots of room for magic items for defence.

But I definatly think a dragon can still have a place in a HE list.

Another build that might be viable is a archmage and a prince. With the percentage rules you can actually fit both of these in a not to big army (don't have my book, so can't give exact points). It offers some nice options I think. Anyone planning on trying this?

Rod

[mike newman]

i dont think it is dragon vs magic at all

i think you can make a very strong case for having a lord on foot. you can have white sword an 2+ re-rollable. or if GW do get re-rolls you can have 4 s6 plus 2+ rerollable 4++. adds a punch to any unit. and thats only one of many set ups. our lord choice did get better too even without the dragon!

like wise i think theres a solid shout for in games around 2k for no need for a lord at all

[SpellArcher]

think you can make a very strong case for having a lord on foot.

I can see this would make for a very strong centre to an infantry army. The issue might be getting him into combat but I guess it's easier to reform and to march now.

[Aethyr]

One lore of Life Mage and One Lore of Heavens could potentially protect him anyway, as Ozy said in the other thread, some of those spells are invaluable, and between the two, keeping him alive long enough to wreak havoc isnt too big a feat.

[Musashi]

If you blitz your opponent, you probably can sacrifice considerable magic superiority on the altar of draconic pragmatism.

[Ozymandias]

Here's a cunning plan also for getting your foot Prince into the right combats, or at least for preserving mages when you've got a combat foot Prince.

Lore of Shadow - Base power allows you to switch places with another character (need clarification that it can be any character, not just other mages). So, if your Mage is in a position to charge the unit your Prince is designed to kill, charge with the mage (your opponent is gonna hold unless they've also figured this trick out) then cast a spell which can be cast into combat (like a Hex such as Withering etc.) then
*poof*
Suddenly your White Sword Prince is chopping on those nasty Ironguts or whatever AND they'll be -D3 Strength or Toughness. Surprise! Hahaha!

Lore of Shadows also has potential for a surprise sucker-punch move (but hard to pull off I reckon). Take a Mage with Folariath's Robe (only affected by magical stuff) and cast Steed of Shadows to jump in front of some war machine or whatever (or pull the same trick in front of a unit with Frenzy, so they gotta charge you). Then next turn pull the switch and charge in with the Prince! (Hard to pull off though as you opponent could just charge in a beat your Mage with combat res, or a true gunline will have a magic weapon character nearby to chop him down). But still it's one way of getting your Prince in combat quicker.

[pk-ng]

I'm not sure exactly how terror changed this ed, but I think that it got worse as well. So for a dragon to be effective it needs to be in combat. Maybe not huge on the SD (as it is build for combat), but definatly for the baby dragon.

terror only works on the charge now. So if you charge they take a Terror test. If they fail they flee. Not sure if it's just 1 terror test per unit though

[Lord Anathir]

The dragon is more polar now, stronger against the non warmachine armies but weaker against the ones who have them.

I wouldnt say the prince on foot is worth it. Hes got to be armored to the teeth and for the price of a whole infantry block you just get a few st6 attacks minus whatever he displaced from the unit. Just too slow and doesnt add another dimension to your list like say, a dragon or magic.

[Flame of the Asuryan]

Can't I use the Prince his leadership in a block for stubborn tests in this edition?

[wamphyri101]

To be honest its give and take:

Cons:

Strength 3 can wound your dragon on a 6. Fair enough, we will still get a armour save and even if you have 50 archer shots you still will be lucky to get a wound. Also no more +1 hit for large targets.

With them being brought under a lord choice you will have to either reduce what dragon you use or spend less magic items (until hopefully our FAQ allows us to ignore this for the elite army rule)

Cannons and the like dont need to guess to hit. Well against "good" players that was never an issue anyway as they could guess pretty much spot on.

With the new magic there are some pretty heavy hitters that can total our dragon lord... but magi chas always been a thorn in the side of a Dragon lord.

Pro's:

More damage from the thuder clash

no more +1 to hit

Flame attack is alot better for hitting mass models (though only once)


At the end of the day if the enemy is throwing everything they have at a harder to kill lord (probably for just 1 turn as you will hopefully be in combat turn 2) then it means they are not shooting the much weaker combat units of my army which will either be getting close enough to charge or shooting your warmachines/ stronger units

[Ulanth]

Lizzies will still chomp on the dragon with there posion attacks. I have lost many wounds on the dragon to their blow pipes, I don't really rely on dragons to win, I love my foot prince with white sword, though now that giant blade is looking tasty as well.

[Silver]

Strength 3 can wound your dragon on a 6. Fair enough, we will still get a armour save and even if you have 50 archer shots you still will be lucky to get a wound. Also no more +1 hit for large targets.

This is nothing new, S3 as always been able to wound T6...