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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 7:52 am 
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Okies these guys cop a lot of flack from people, so I thought I would talk about them.

You get 7 Shadow Warriors for about the price of a 10 Bowman unit.

Benefits
Scout: Great because they can harass the enemy and don't count as a deployment drop. War Machine hunters vs. Gun lines

Skirmish: Place these guys in woods/building and a further -1/-2 to hitting them with missiles
also our only skirmisher all round facing for charges

Hatred:If these guys get into combat they should have a pretty good first round vs T2, T3 troops. Hatred vs. Dark Elves every round of combat can't be bad!!

Not a game winner but maybe a table quarter holder. These guys are survivors if used correctly and may draw fire for several turns, even if the Shadow Warriors die they have saved more important units from being shot up. They may even lure a unit into a forest.

Also they might be used as flank support if an opportunity arises. Add a Noble with GW & (Reaver Bow)to the unit and they can do damage. Even better try Bears Anger on the Noble for a killer unit.

Last but not least you can hide Mages in this unit for a turn or 2 and march through forests with no penalty.

With rumors for 8th Ed coming out the new forests may buff these guys making them more useful.

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Last edited by Eltherion on Thu Jun 10, 2010 1:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 8:23 am 
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They have their uses, its just bang for buck and playstyle really. Ive had them tie units up whove chased them into a forrest and essentially knocked that unit out for the game, which in itself got me back their points. They dont suck as much as they arent that good for their price. 16 points a model, i could get myself some SM's.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 8:43 am 
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They are a bit too expensive, but my biggest reason for not taking them is because my special slots are filled with other units so I simply can't fit them into my army.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 9:22 am 
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I'm a huge fan.

Good for re-directing enemy charges, combo charging and exploiting the last deployment drop, in addition to the points made above.

Give them a wood and watch them go!

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 9:45 am 
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Flexible but overpriced.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 10:55 am 
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I agree wholeheartedly with the OP (Well, except the bit about Bear's Anger which can't be cast on troopers). Shadow Warriors are a finesse unit, and their main role isn't so much to get in there and kill or pew pew pew, but to take a strong position and help dictate the game. Against Dark Elves they're worth it pretty much solely to deny Shades a good scouting location for example If used well they can require a lot of effort for the enemy to kill them (as opposed to DE Shades where they need to be in a location to shoot every turn to get best use), and can claim a quarter at the end, spend the game sneaking into a nice spot or get a warmachine. Just beware of throwing them into combats, even in the flanks- they'll probably just be free CR vs anything worth killing.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 11:35 am 
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Stormie wrote:
Just beware of throwing them into combats

This is always an issue with skirmishers isn't it?

Often their annoyance value outside combat can be worth more than risking the dice.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 1:03 pm 
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Oops Ye Bears Anger is only usable on a Character so put the Noble in the Warriors then Cast bears on the Noble for extra attacks etc... I will edit above post thanks Stormie

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 8:54 pm 
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I to do love theses guys.
I useally field them along with a unit of reavers. I find that these two working in tamden can really irritate my opponent and lead to the old adage of "anger clouds judgment"
Well thats the way I play, and it works for me.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 10:25 pm 
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SpellArcher wrote:
Stormie wrote:
Just beware of throwing them into combats

This is always an issue with skirmishers isn't it?

Often their annoyance value outside combat can be worth more than risking the dice.


Wardancers, Long Beard Rangers with great weapons, Shades with great weapons, Waywatchers can even be good beacuse of the 2 hand weapons. Harpies, Squig hoppers, Flamers aaaaaand Censer Bearers!

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 10:46 pm 
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Even with powerful skirmishers like 6th edition Dryads and Pistol Duellists I had times where I regretted putting them into flanks.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 5:20 pm 
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i think shadow warriors are very situation yes they are scouts and can be good but it depends on the terrain and the army u'r vs'ing. at 16 points per model they are only S3 with hatred (bows n CC) which isn't that fantastic compared to other scouts with their abilities.
e.g shades (RXB + gw), WW (-2 shooting + AHW + scouting positions). if they were slightly better or slightly cheaper i think ppl would take 'em more often

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 8:26 pm 
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I agree with pk-ng even if their BS was the same as shades it would help a bit.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 9:44 pm 
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I think Shadow Warriors suffer from a major drawback - they don't really excel at anything. If they had BS5 or an extra hand weapon or were cheaper then maybe. As they are just now they are probably the worst of the Elf skirmisher units. Unfortunately, High Elves don't really have much of a choice as an alternative :(

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 11:23 pm 
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My wood elf friend always says that he would kill for 16 point scouts. They're better priced than the WE equivalent, but yes, I don't find them in my list very often regardless.
~Grant

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 2:12 am 
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Yes Shades and Waywatchers are better.

We only have one skirmisher type available. Warriors of Chaos for example don't have any and it hurts them.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 3:43 am 
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WarpPhoenix wrote:
SpellArcher wrote:
Stormie wrote:
Just beware of throwing them into combats

This is always an issue with skirmishers isn't it?

Often their annoyance value outside combat can be worth more than risking the dice.


Wardancers, Long Beard Rangers with great weapons, Shades with great weapons, Waywatchers can even be good beacuse of the 2 hand weapons. Harpies, Squig hoppers, Flamers aaaaaand Censer Bearers!

Just thought I'd point out that Rangers still rank up. Dwarves don't really go in for the whole skirmishing thing But absolutely to all the rest.
I generally take Shadow Warriors, if only because I only have 1 Eagle model and I really need to tie up more warmachines/harass more enemies than 1 Eagle can handle. But if they had a simple extra hand weapon man would they be awesome.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 2:32 pm 
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grantmepower wrote:
My wood elf friend always says that he would kill for 16 point scouts. They're better priced than the WE equivalent, but yes, I don't find them in my list very often regardless.
~Grant


granted that WW are expensive (24 pt/model) but you paid that for their skills and attribute (-2 to shooting, AHW, Can scout within 10", KB on short range!, BS 5) I would kill to have WW as I reckon they are awesome and fluffy!

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 8:44 pm 
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Well you cant compare shadow warriors to shades, mostly because their design is completely different and so is their fluff.

The only way you can compare them is because they both have the skirmish and scout rule, and that they are both elves. Shades opperate as a mobile firing platform that actively hunt and track prey, not only springing ambushes but sometimes with just raw firepower and attacking skill. Where are Shadow Warriors are actually raiders, disrupting plans and effecting key reinforcements. Either way I dont find it fair to compare them simply because shades are a monster of a unit with their only weakness being no armour. You can however put waywatchers up against shades since they perfom the task of trying to get close and do more damage than they did at long range.

That beign said I think that WW are priced just right, and we all can agree that the DE book is a couple points short of an actual army book ;p

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 4:05 am 
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In 8th, template weapons especially, but all artillery in general will be our bane. Scouts and fast cav will be the best at hunting them. With shadow warriors being able to infiltrate anywhere 12"away from enemies, that will create a real problem for your opponent to protect their guns. 12" is a single charge away. With hatred, and fighting in 2 ranks, shadows should be able to aquit themselves well as infiltrators.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 6:49 am 
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Must be a rule change that I missed, since when can SWs infiltrate everywhere, like the previous version of Chameleon Skinks?

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 8:05 am 
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The rumour is anywhere 12" away from enemies...


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 11:28 am 
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even in los?

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 10:17 pm 
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I always use a unit of six Shadow Warriors in my games (2250-2500). I find them to be little more then an annoyance to my opponent, but they will always do something, and can surprise you sometimes with there hand to hand fighting. Usually I use them just to draw a unit away into the woods and escape. Also they are great for releasing Fanatics on turn 1-2 while staying safe if your smart placing terrain. Sometimes your opponent will not bother with them, and then you just send them into war machines which they easily beat with four attacks, hatred, and unit weight.

Sadly with the change in 8th edition to how skirmishers work, and that all infantry can move through woods without penalty AND true line of sight, I don't think these guys will be worth it. IMO they really need to be one point cheaper and get an extra hand weapon stock.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 12:47 pm 
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I'd have to agree, I think that 8th Ed. will be the bane of these guys. Skirmishers are becoming a lot more complicated than they have to be and with our ASF+I = re-rolls means the Shadow warriors Hatred is wasted. Plus, since they have no ranks and outnumbering does nothing they'll struggle to pull down crew with only 5 S3 attacks.

The future's not looking great for these guys.. :?

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 5:57 am 
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pk-ng wrote:
even in los?
:wink: You'd have a hard time trying to stay out of LOS in a true LOS environment..., So, yes, even in LOS.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 6:09 am 
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Hmm, they really are shaping up to be a unit that will almost never see the tabletop unless somthing changes for them.
Marchblocking - touch and go.
Bait + Flee - Charger can pass Ld. Test and redirect the Charge if passed
TLOS - Screening is minimised
Hatred + ASF+Rerolls = .... umm?
As said Movement through Woods is against them
Two Ranks to disrupt the enemy, but theyre pricey and lackluster in CC, especially with what would be being thrown back at them in this upcoming edition

I wonder if there is anything that could be done, bar a complete rewrite to make them worth taking in 8th.

Pity, they have the best fluff.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 11:31 am 
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Sulla1111 wrote:
pk-ng wrote:
even in los?
:wink: You'd have a hard time trying to stay out of LOS in a true LOS environment..., So, yes, even in LOS.


damn i forgot abt TLOS. hate it

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 7:31 pm 
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War Machines having combined profiles and being able to be wounded on 6s might add a little benefit to these guys in their hunting, but overall I think they are still overpriced. Have only used them once and they took down a razordon unit on their own which was nice.

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