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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 7:09 am 
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ok, my names fabian, and i will give you a completly new way of looking at HE's.

I stumbled across this method, when everyone told me how lucky a HE player is with high movement.
But simply, i ask u, why the hell would we want a high points unit, with low strength toughness and no special ws, why would we want to charge them into, lets say orcs, VC's even dark elves.
Well, their is no answer acually its simply fucked up.
so heres the thing, one thing elves rock in (stastically speaking) is BS. And gues what the only way to use it is to shoot.

Alright, so if you havent already guesed this tactic, its not to move. Now you may think that normal, but it isnt, i red all battle reports, and HE's dont move up until the enemy is almost their and that what all of you do, but why?? we attack first, and with more units in our army that can fire then even the Empire, we could just stand and shoot, attack first and win plus instead of moving you can shoot then as well.
what i am proposing is an error in judgment on the enemies part. Take dwarves for example, get the RBT's and take out their cannon crew, then bring them on their knees by shooting whatever shooting units they have, and then BAAM the slowest army in the game has to come toward the fastest army. I have literally done this twice to dwraves against the same opponent, theres nothing he can do, he(by luck he estimated one cannon right, and killed one RBT, but he was sooooo lucky)
another great example, Dark elves, can b easliy counter productive if they dont get into comabt, just dont go forward, wipe out the cross bows, before they get in range (that the only adv with long bow,they go 30 and xbows only go 24) so boom they have an army that has to march to u, they would think no probz i mean they are DE's they are fast. However throw an a GE (great eagle for noobs who didnt know) and they can march, then all frenzy boy's will get out of line. And there u go when they finally reach you, they r weaker out of line and not in the right place.
Now if you had moved up, u would of had a -1 on shooting, and they would of gotten to you faster and for what i mean there is absolutly no reason to do that.
or go with my way, no -1, you get another turn of shooting and you get stand and shoot (which most of the time u cud do with the other way, that being fair. But still) so their you go.

ill b posting some mre tactica. plz do comment


Last edited by fabiankj on Thu May 20, 2010 8:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 9:38 am 
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Quite aside from the fact that many armies can out-shoot/out-magic High Elves, or simply have enough bodies that they don't care, failing to move it a stupid tactic.


Warhammer should be a game of manoeuvre. Granted, some armies are not - Dwarves, and Empire have the Gunline option (though they have knights) but generally, not moving will always lose you the game. Not only do you deny yourself the option of flanking and rear charging - which are almost mandatory for High Elves, as we can't win through attrition or kills often enough - we also open ourselves up to flanking and rear charges, which right royally screws us.

To be honest, the moment you said not to move I gave up. Then I re-read it to see if you had a point, but no. If you honestly think High Elves can outshoot Dwarves, you are either odd, REALLY REALLY good, or the Dwarf player REALLY REALLY sucks. I'm betting on the first or third option. Dwarves are the kings of not moving and shooting. So what if their thunderers have 6 inches less range. 10 high elf archers will be lucky to kill a single dwarf at long range. A RBT, maybe 2. Cannons, crossbows and handguns ruin High Elf units, while the magic defence of dwarves means we need all the magic we can get to beat them.

It's about the same for Empire, only they also use knights to close on the lines.

Using the words 'at its finest' in the title is a disgrace, and verging on demeaning for those of us who have actually written really good tactica.

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Last edited by Prince_Asuryan on Sun May 16, 2010 12:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 11:26 am 
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Interesting theory, but even if it does work it leads up to a pretty two dimensional game which kind of destroys the whole point in the first place. By all means write up some more tacticas, but please, write normally.

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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 12:18 pm 
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ok... about the tactic...

well standing and shooting is a bit of a gambit. i dont know who would win a firefight between two gunline armies.

I know that you can do some damage if you buy only shooty units. but then your opponent has to be mixed, so that his firepower is inferior to yours. and that his close combat units cant beat you in hth...

its nothing new. and gunlines tend to be VERY boring.

on grammar: seriously, some people here dont have english as their first language. i dont. and use of abbreviated internet slang like "b" "u" "plz", while more or less discusting, is a defacto standard of writing on the net, and ok to use in a post like this.

however, if he had written this tactica in say an official form, for this omepage or forum, demands on grammar can be made.

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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 1:24 pm 
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Please use proper spelling and grammar if you want people to take you seriously.

As for the tactic itself it's hardly worth being called "the finest" since you just stand and shoot at the enemy. High Elves have a pretty crappy shooting phase compared to a lot of armies out there. Our army's strongest points are manoeuvrability, close combat and magic with shooting acting as a support phase.

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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 7:01 pm 
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If I interpreted this doctrine correctly, it's possible for the HE to castle and let the enemy come and get you, but it doesn't work all the time and you need to place the terrain appropriately. Plus, knowing what to take down fist helps.

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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 7:21 pm 
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Outshooting dwarfs? You sir, must know something that I do not. A dwarf, dark elf, or empire gunline will almost always beat one put forward by high elves in my experience, while horde armies like skaven, vampire counts, and greenskins will simply march through it and reach you with enough guys to smash the fragile missile units.
It makes for a 1-dimensional game that shouldn't see you winning against a competent opponent. If you want a gunline that sits still play dwarfs.
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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 9:02 pm 
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This is somebody trolling right?

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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 10:07 pm 
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Given that it's far easier for a cannon to destroy a bolt thrower, than for bolt throwers to kill dwarf cannon crew, I would say yes. I look forward to the tactica on how to beat Dark Elf Dragons which is probably "let them flank charge you then run them down" :^o


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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 6:03 am 
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its quite obvious you do not like the tactic. :(
i guess thats how you may feel, however i strongly urge to have a go, as for the tactic being boring, its not. In fact its an intresting way to play a army thats built around manovarbility (soz on spelling). so any one that doesnt like it, fair enough. I guess i deserve the kick in the ass for the heading, i do agree its strong , however honest to god i have only ever lost one game with this tactic and thats really the biggest masscre, however i have played many time games and the tactics worked. I did it at games workshop and they laughed at me for taking on a dwraves gun line, but i kicked their ass.
Firstly i took out all their crew men with my rbts, then charged my chariots into their long beards and used the chariot rule for all 3 of my chariots and i smashed em.
anywayz, thanx for feed back positive or negative (mainly negative) ill post more stuff, soon and hope you enjoy critisizing that haha.
anywayz its all just for shitz and giggles hope you enjoy anything i post further more.
cyaz


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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 6:12 am 
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*edit* Nevermind, it's not worth it.....


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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 7:59 am 
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squalie wrote:
*edit* Nevermind, it's not worth it.....

come on bro i added that just for u, soz if u dont lik it but i seariously dont think u shud get fustrated ovr this.


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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 8:59 am 
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Man, normally all the trolls end up in Off-Topic...

What makes me laugh is while you post this, you've ALSO posted a request for help against O&G - certainly either the worst or second worst army in the game.

I'm interested to know a) How many games you've played using this tactic, b) Who against and c) what was in their armies. Cos I'd guess:

a) Not many, b) 5 year olds, c) The worst things.


This is not a good tactic, for reasons I've gone into.

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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 1:01 am 
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Alright then. First off, stop writing like you're a 15 year old that got hit on the head with a brick...unless of course that's what happened. If so, I'm sorry. Second, swearing in every post you've made doesn't let anyone take you seriously. You simply sound like a punk. Even If you had something good to say, we'd never know it. Third, I'm not your "bro", "bra", or whatever. Fourth, there are far more letters on your keyboard than you are using.

Seriously, how old are you?


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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 2:19 am 
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I like to keep an open mind to different builds (not that things are going to stay the same with 8th edition), so I'll bite and ask what you take in your army? If your army is... 2x20 LSG, seafarer prince and bsb reaver noble with great weapons, 2 caddies, 3 lion chariots, 4 rbt, 2x5 reavers with bows (about 2250 points). I'd say thats quite a formidable army, I guess it could work.

-good magic defense
-excellent shooting against hordes and large targets. 5 bolt throwers, 50 bow shots, reaver bow. = !
-reavers to get in the way, slow enemy advance
-LSG go pew pew for a few rounds then reform and with a great weapon character each and supported by lion chariots they'd be pretty decent in combat against a weakened opponent.



I'd take it to a no comp tournament. Not sure why everyone is so quick to bash it, maybe because of your writing style.


As for the army being boring I'm going to disagree too, I've used something like that and its quite fun. But not for your opponent, especially if your shooting rolls well.

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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 7:59 am 
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[quote="Lord Anathir"]Acually dude, that heaps nice of you to right this, ur obviuosly a nice guy, thanx for ur comment. hwever, i must agree the heading was really a bit to strong, but its shit that people dogged me lik that how can they say its crap, obviously no one has tried it, cuz i have a high ratio for winning im sure if all the people that dogged me, acually liked vs me in a battle, theyd find out im a formidable (soz on spelling) opponent. Anyways, thanx again for ur comment.


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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 8:05 am 
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squalie wrote:
Alright then. First off, stop writing like you're a 15 year old that got hit on the head with a brick...unless of course that's what happened. If so, I'm sorry. Second, swearing in every post you've made doesn't let anyone take you seriously. You simply sound like a punk. Even If you had something good to say, we'd never know it. Third, I'm not your "bro", "bra", or whatever. Fourth, there are far more letters on your keyboard than you are using.

Seriously, how old are you?

acually im 15 lol, and im no punk hahaha but thanx with the brick thing, lol.. anywayz the phrase kind sir is "dropped on the head." but ur close enough. Anwyaz im glad u didnt dog wat i said, (ill stop swearing as well) as for other comments, which hav been pretty mean, if u people dont like it, express ur opinion however obviuosly u no shit cuz u nevr tried my method. Im cool with u expressing ur self but please stop with ur insults.


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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 8:40 am 
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is 50 cent your brother? Because you talk like him yo...

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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 9:12 am 
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pk-ng wrote:
is 50 cent your brother? Because you talk like him yo...

hahaha, u r soo funny, seariously u laugh at my grammer again, u obviously hav nothing better to do, im surprised i put up with ur crap im just tryin to help people with my opinion and u com fuckin mock me, loser. im not agrressive but this pisses me off man seariously, so i dont hav good grammer, have u acually read my forum post, im surprised i havent said uve been trolling, but im lik nevr gonna do that cuz the name trolling is to funny and nerdy. anywayz this goes for evryone, plz if ur just ganna pay me out, save it


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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 9:41 am 
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Y'know.. The thing is. You're advertising your 'opinion' as if it's the best tactical advice ever written. Which it's not. Maybe it's working for you but if other, experienced, players have their critical views ready for you.. You should just accept that and move on instead of getting hostile mate.

Also.. The spelling thing.. Work on that. Seriously. If you want people to take your advice serious you should at least be able to spell reasonably well. It's appreciated by your reader if it looks like you took the time to write something with care instead of just face-rolling the keyboard in the hope that it makes you look cool.

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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 9:44 am 
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fabiankj wrote:
anywayz this goes for evryone, plz if ur just ganna pay me out, save it


Quote:
plz do comment



Anyway, I re-read some of this, and it made me laugh. You 'stumbled across' a Gunline? Quite aside from the fact that Gunlines have been around for longer than you have, I'm amazed no one you've played with has pointed this out to you.

I still want to know what's in the armies you play, because there is no way you are out shooting dwarves or DE. In fact, the only time I've out shot dwarves - in about 12-13 years of gaming - is when I took an army of Shadow Warriors, and my opponent had an army of rangers and warriors, with only about 3 shooting units.

Quote:
express ur opinion however obviuosly u no shit cuz u nevr tried my method


No, no one here has ever tried a gunline before... [/sarcasm]

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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 9:51 am 
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Prince_Asuryan wrote:
Quote:
express ur opinion however obviuosly u no shit cuz u nevr tried my method


No, no one here has ever tried a gunline before... [/sarcasm]


I thought this was so obvious it wasn't in need to be said? :?

Seriously though.. I think High Elves might be the worst army to try Gunline with bar.. Vampire Counts, Chaos and O&G..

I mean, you can try to do a gunline with Core = Archers, Special = Shadow Warriors, Rare = Crossbows.. But that would leave you with a VERY boring army that's still easily outgunned by the armies that can actually pull off a gunline without compromising the integrity of the army.

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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 10:00 am 
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Just as a side note, killing 3 dwarf cannon crew before he plants a cannon through your RBT is MUCH luckier than the other way around.

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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 5:08 pm 
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Dear fabiankj,
I'm 14, but I don't write like Jackie Chan speaks English.

Now that's out of the way:
1) saying your tactica is world's finest isn't something you normally do (although others may have their opinion), even if it's true, wich clearly isn't;
2) it isn't only pk-ng who finds your spelling a nuisance, it's an agreement made on the forum. Maybe you should read some articles about behaviour on the web, as well as the site's guidelines;
3) as pretty much anyone tries to make clear, HE aren't suited to fight as a gunline. If it works for you, fine. You may try to persuade others to try it too, but you should not insult them and stick to your own opinion at all times. At this point, the topic doesn't belong in the tactic's section anymore.

A side note: when people tell you something, don't immediately laugh it away, they could be trying to help you.

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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 5:09 pm 
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Are there no mods here, or what? You're kidding me...


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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 5:30 pm 
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squalie wrote:
Are there no mods here, or what? You're kidding me...


In a situation where general mocking is in order, they're not needed :P

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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 5:36 pm 
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Quote:
In a situation where general mocking is in order, they're not needed


I like you. :D


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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 6:34 pm 
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Minsc wrote:
Most pointless thread 2010 goes to...*drumroll*..."high elves in a nut()shell". =D>

This feels like something GW would publish - it's all wrong but hilarous at the same time.


I'm sorry everyone; I was to quick to give this award away - It instead goes to...*drumroll*...this thread! =D>
If high-elves in a nutshell want it's award back, speak to the admins.


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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 8:26 pm 
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NoOoDLe wrote:
Seriously though.. I think High Elves might be the worst army to try Gunline with bar.. Vampire Counts, Chaos and Bretonnia..

Sorry man, but 8 bolt throwers and 2 doom divers for 440 pts is a pretty decent value if you ask me. I just felt that this needed to be corrected, OnG are not ideal as a shooty army, but they can get a lot of war machines at 2k, and by taking a couple units of wolf riders with short bows, some night goblins with short bows and fanatics, backed up by some core orc blocks a few wizards and a character or four on chariots, OnG can get a pretty solid defensive shooty army going. The only problem they really have in this area is unreliability, which plagues all OnG armies, thankfully all 10 of those war machines are immune to animosity, so really, it's not that big of a problem in this case, and while our shooting isn't very good, it isn't bad either, BS3 on all of our shooting units is not bad, it's just not that good (most elf players take their BS4+ for granted, Empire and Dwarves are both BS3 armies, and they are considered to be the best gunlines going, tomb kings are BS2).
Contrary to popular belief, arrer boyz aren't bad either, they essentially are orc boyz with bows instead of shields, not that good you say, I'd argue that they are basically the same thing as LSG and considering how much cheaper they are, they shoot just as well as most non-elven armies, but they do a lot better in cc, they aren't great, they aren't OnG best choice, but they don't suck, I have 50 of them, and they've served me very well over the 6 years I've been playing OnG, they're quite versatile, I tend to use them to protect vunerable flanks and war machines. A 10 man unit is 60 points, 75 for the same unit with a champion who gets WS4 S4 A2 though with our choppa rule, that's 2 S5 attacks plus 4 S4 attacks from an archer unit that costs only 75 points, has T4 and LA for free, whose primary roll is protecting flanks and war machines, show me a flank protector that can top that for that cheap in anybodies army (their only real flaw is animosity, and if you can't handle animosity, you shouldn't play OnG).

Sorry for the rant, but I just hate hearing people claim OnG can't be shooty if they want to be successful.


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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 8:33 pm 
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Sorry, didn't realize that =P Not too familiar with OnG tbh. Just never saw them with any kind of gunline set up..

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