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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2010 9:51 am 
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Act of God wrote:
While I truly hate to agree with fabianjk, I just figured I'd point out that 0+ AS Chaos Knights are indeed possible, Chaos Warshrines have the option to allow Chaos Knights (or any other unit within 12") to roll on the "Eye of the Gods" table, and if the Chaos Knights roll a 6 on that table, they will indeed have a 0+ armour save.


Yeah, but that's not a base option, and so shouldn't be considered during the argument. Certainly it happens, but it's neither common, nor a particular problem - once they have that, pound em with single shot RBT or the Law of metal (which should always be taken against WoC)

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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2010 11:58 am 
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Prince_Asuryan wrote:
Act of God wrote:
While I truly hate to agree with fabianjk, I just figured I'd point out that 0+ AS Chaos Knights are indeed possible, Chaos Warshrines have the option to allow Chaos Knights (or any other unit within 12") to roll on the "Eye of the Gods" table, and if the Chaos Knights roll a 6 on that table, they will indeed have a 0+ armour save.


Yeah, but that's not a base option, and so shouldn't be considered during the argument. Certainly it happens, but it's neither common, nor a particular problem - once they have that, pound em with single shot RBT or the Law of metal (which should always be taken against WoC)

Agreed, though against a chaos army, our no armour save sword becomes an appealing option for one of my heroes. Now the real question is what the hell do you do if those buffed knights turn out to be tzeentch knights and they roll a 12 instead of a 6 on that EotG roll, 1+ Armour Save 3+ Ward Save Stubborn Chaos Knights, I know it won't come up very often, but I used to play against a pure Tzeentch Chaos Mortal player almost every week for years, I've seen that come up 3 times now, and I've yet to find a solution (They just wouldn't die, and since that unit usually had his lord in it, it became unstoppable, but also so valuable that they had to be killed if I wanted the win). Between them, and his big block of chosen with the Banner of Ward Save vs Ranged Attacks, and his BSB was a nightmare too, 4+ Ward Save, made them virtually unstoppable too through any means but combat (and that's usually suicide for most units in most armies).


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PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2010 9:54 am 
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Act of God wrote:
Prince_Asuryan wrote:
Act of God wrote:
While I truly hate to agree with fabianjk, I just figured I'd point out that 0+ AS Chaos Knights are indeed possible, Chaos Warshrines have the option to allow Chaos Knights (or any other unit within 12") to roll on the "Eye of the Gods" table, and if the Chaos Knights roll a 6 on that table, they will indeed have a 0+ armour save.


Yeah, but that's not a base option, and so shouldn't be considered during the argument. Certainly it happens, but it's neither common, nor a particular problem - once they have that, pound em with single shot RBT or the Law of metal (which should always be taken against WoC)

Agreed, though against a chaos army, our no armour save sword becomes an appealing option for one of my heroes. Now the real question is what the hell do you do if those buffed knights turn out to be tzeentch knights and they roll a 12 instead of a 6 on that EotG roll, 1+ Armour Save 3+ Ward Save Stubborn Chaos Knights, I know it won't come up very often, but I used to play against a pure Tzeentch Chaos Mortal player almost every week for years, I've seen that come up 3 times now, and I've yet to find a solution (They just wouldn't die, and since that unit usually had his lord in it, it became unstoppable, but also so valuable that they had to be killed if I wanted the win). Between them, and his big block of chosen with the Banner of Ward Save vs Ranged Attacks, and his BSB was a nightmare too, 4+ Ward Save, made them virtually unstoppable too through any means but combat (and that's usually suicide for most units in most armies).


Seeing you left this on my forum i c the need to help ya.
anywayz, although my opinion may not be valued (if you read the other comments) if you want to take my addvice id be happy to give you more.
Now down to the issue, look to be frank with you if they roll a 6 and 6 the rarity (soz on spelling) of that is like the rarity of you killing them. If they have two sixes they are basically unstopable. So far not really good news and i really would like to tell you a way which works 100% but it probz wont. However fight fire with fire if they want to have apocoliptic figures you should as well, bring teclis into the fray and he'll rock. If you think he's easy to kill ur acuallly wrong. Put banner of socery on. Get a lvl 2 and its all good you have power dice coming out oof your ass. So with the rule Teclis casts irresistable force you will woop ass. So fire flames of the phenix on them and attempt to kill them, then vauls unmaking taking away the ward save and it all good. They will then be pretty much normal with flames of the phenix.
If you think teclis is to fragile you wrong cast sheild of Anerion once every turn on him. Then when they are close cast it twick, this way he wont die and ull still be able to cast one or two spells.

So hope this help u mate, hope to hear from you again.


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PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2010 10:17 am 
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Your opinion is valued mate, don't worry, I'm reading it, I disagree with most but I do listen and try to help :).

Teclis is very good, but he is a crutch, as I said in your other thread, he is very powerful and underpriced and winning with him is not confirmation that you are a skilled general. However, I agree that against WoC he is particularly good. A level 2 with Teclis is not a good idea, for one reason. Teclis casts a spell, there is a high chance it IFs. Teclis casts another spell, same result. The enemies dispell dice are getting bored. Now Teclis is out of dice. The level 2s turn, he casts a spell. The enemies dispel dice are now all focused on the puny attempts of a level 2. And that isn't so good. You shouldn't use high magic against WoC, particularly knights. The unit will be at most 7 big, spell 6 lore of metal does 2D6, enough to hit them all anyways. FotF does S3, and possibly S4. That is wounding on 5s and 4s and saved on 2s every time. Lore of metal is wounding on 2s and their armor is reduced to a 5+. Much better odds all round.

shield of Anaerion doesn't stack, so casting it twice has no benefit. Also, as Teclis should be your only caster, you have no-one to cast it on. Use a large unit of PG or WL instead :).

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PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2010 12:05 pm 
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Sturen: lore of metal ignores armour saves.

Fabian: you can't get rid of the tzeentch ward save with vauls unmaking as it isn't caused by a magic item.

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PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2010 1:39 pm 
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fabiankj wrote:
Seeing you left this on my forum i c the need to help ya.
anywayz, although my opinion may not be valued (if you read the other comments) if you want to take my addvice id be happy to give you more.
Now down to the issue, look to be frank with you if they roll a 6 and 6 the rarity (soz on spelling) of that is like the rarity of you killing them. If they have two sixes they are basically unstopable. So far not really good news and i really would like to tell you a way which works 100% but it probz wont. However fight fire with fire if they want to have apocoliptic figures you should as well, bring teclis into the fray and he'll rock. If you think he's easy to kill ur acuallly wrong. Put banner of socery on. Get a lvl 2 and its all good you have power dice coming out oof your ass. So with the rule Teclis casts irresistable force you will woop ass. So fire flames of the phenix on them and attempt to kill them, then vauls unmaking taking away the ward save and it all good. They will then be pretty much normal with flames of the phenix.
If you think teclis is to fragile you wrong cast sheild of Anerion once every turn on him. Then when they are close cast it twick, this way he wont die and ull still be able to cast one or two spells.

So hope this help u mate, hope to hear from you again.


So you rely on Teclis to win. Sorry, I thought you played real Warhammer...

Also, with Flames of the Phoenix, it's gonna take about 2-3 turns to have any effect on Chaos Knights, and while it is in play, Teclis can't cast any more spells.

Also, a 5+ Ward save (Which is Shield of Spahery - Courage of Aenarion grants stubborn) is NOT going to protect Teclis, from very much at all. It would take on average about 5-6 Ws 4 attacks to kill him in turn, easy for 2 Chaos knights, and not too hard for others.

But with this tactic you cast Flames on the first turn, thus either wasting Teclis for the rest of the game to keep it cast or risk it being dispelled (which is likely) and recasting it with S3 which useless. Next, you have a lvl 2 with 6 dice, 2 of which, possibly three, are needed for the useless shield, and consigns him to High Magic and three dice to cast spells, so you better hope he gets fury on his two dice.


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Fabian: you can't get rid of the tzeentch ward save with vauls unmaking as it isn't caused by a magic item.


Not to mention that nothing in the army can cast it reliably.

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PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2010 7:42 am 
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fabiankj wrote:
High elves: weak, not tough, statistcly average and very expensive in points.
Good news.
They have the best rules, always strike first, three ranked attack are just for the core units rules and no army can equal the High elves in preciseness or manovrability. (no wonder goblins are scared of high elves, they are the only sensible ones.)
Anyway, this is all info you may know.
But what you may not know is this, if you value your men, each individual one as if they are the most fragile and preciuos thing, you will have less casulties. In fact many "pro" players play as if one elf dead, is one to many.

Combat.
elves in combat are quite good, they hold up well, with high leadership and quite good basic skills. However comfidence isnt something you should have if elves are in combat, because most armies will win in combat rez even against some of you elite troops.
Orcs and goblins, sheer brutality, strengths and toughness will kill you.
Chaos will slaughter you.
skaven sheer amount will over welm you.
Lizardmen will beat you with stegadons, poisened attacks and elite magic.
All undead will simply come back to life.
Ogres will squash you.
Dark elves sheer hatred (cheap troops) and creatues like the hydra will eventually get the better of you.
wood elves, well acuallly all they have is wooden swords, so go ahead woop their ass.

But i think you get my point. If your in combat to soon, the game will end very soon.

I guess your waiting for the good new. Well its a mixed bag. You may not be the most superior in fire power, however it will help. However Magic, now thats the killer teclis, mages even Mr. Grim they all will smash. If you have teclis, you will be superior in the magic phases and unless you vs dwarves or the emipre, you will win in long ranged fire. Corse in combat you will do satisfactory, so i believe its quite possible, if you are a good general to win.



I like using Teclis, but all he does for me is act primarily as a shield, the current HE list is meant as a pre-emptive strike force. That means the battle could be decided quickly, and not always unfavourably for HEs.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 1:41 pm 
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Anyone thought of pit of shades for the knights? Sure they probably have quite high initiative but I think (might be wrong) that it ignores ALL saves.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 11:50 pm 
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They would only fail on a 6, and you would only get 2 models fully and the rest would be partial. The best way to blow away knights like that is to catch them on the flank with a good combat unit that has a mass of combat res with another unit on their other side to catch them when/if they run.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 1:14 am 
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The High Elves can certainly win as our better players have shown in various Tournaments.

Currently the Top Ranked Australian player is a High Elf.
http://www.rankingshq.com/rankings/defa ... RegionId=1

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 9:23 am 
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He doesn't play HE anymore. And he doesn't even run a star dragon.

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