Advice vs Empire list of doom

Discuss your tactics for the 7th Ed army book here, together with tactics for other races.

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Sanguis
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Advice vs Empire list of doom

#1 Post by Sanguis »

So... we have started a points league between myself and 3 friends.

Lists are decided on before we start, and cannot be changed. We play each oponent twice, and gain points based on te battle outcomes.

My high Elf list is somewhat experimental, not sure how its gonna play out in the end, but its first game vs WE gained me a massacre.

Next fight will be Empire... ad i saw what he was fielding yesterday... oh... my.... god.

----------

My High Elf list

Prince with AOC, Vambraces, Sword of might, riding a star dragon
Dragon mage, Silver wand, Ring of fury, riding a sun dragon

10 Archers
10 Archers

Tiranoc Chariot
Tiranoc Chariot
10 Dragon Princes, Standard, Champion, amulet of light, Banne rof elerion
8 Sword masters, champion

Bolt thrower
Bolt thrower
Eagle
Eagle


Empire list

Volkmar on pope mobile
War priest (Barded Mount, sigil of sigmar, casket of sorcery)
lvl 2 wiz (Barded Mount, doomfire ring, wizards staff)
Lvl 2 wiz (barded mount, Scroll, scroll)

10 Gunners, marksman with long rifle, detachment of archers
10 Gunners, marksman with long rifle, detachment of archers
10 Gunners, marksman with long rifle, detachment of archers
10 Gunners, marksman with long rifle, detachment of archers

great cannon
great cannon
great cannon
great cannon

Tank
Tank

--------------

So... Any ideas?

As far as i can see... my only two options are....

Stay back out of range, and try to soften the missile ase up a bit with my longer ranged missiles.

or

Simply go for it, and present everything to him in turn one, and cross my fingers hoping that he doesnt prioritise properly, and enough gets to him in turn 2 to break through the line...

<gulp>

(edited correct enemy items in now)
Last edited by Sanguis on Tue Apr 06, 2010 1:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- Your Servant, Sanguis DeLothern.
pk-ng
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Re: Advice vs Empire list of doom

#2 Post by pk-ng »

If he's fielding that I really wonder what kind of friend he is.

If there's composition points (i doubt there is I'll give him -5)

Avoid the Stanks

Go for the cannons fast. Use ur RBTs to shoot at the cannon and try to neutralise 1 asap.

Hide your stuff behind terrain and move ur DPs from forest to forest because nothing can touch you except for magic.

Fly your dragons and cover them. Make sure when you land you at least 6" within the cannons to cause terror test. And if you survive the missile attacks on your you can charge with ur dragons. And make sure your eagles don't die at the start the can fly out and land infront/back of some gunners and duo charge 1 group with 2 eagles. Forcing him to make decision on who to shoot at (hopefully at your eagles). Leadership 7 isn't great for terror test. Breath and Magic missile each of the crew as to kill the cannon as soon as possible. Once the cannons are dead ur prince can go kill war altar. dragon on the war altar prince on the arch lector on top. Kill the WAR ALTAR FIRST it's a pripority. Once it's down the arch lector suxs.

None of your stuff can do anything except aviod the Stanks and not getting killed. Just hide until the cannons have been neutralised and if you have the chance kill the gunners. Once the cannons are gone you can bring them out but don't bet on killing the Stank the only that can kill it it prolly the prince on Star dragon. but tackle them 1 at a time.
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Keith
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Re: Advice vs Empire list of doom

#3 Post by Keith »

The prince has ASF the dragon does not, the Prince MUST go before the Dragon when doing attacks.

The special character at least doesn't have van horstmans. So that should make you less afraid of it.

Also, forget the cannons, Place your bolt throwers where they can't be seen by cannons. Cannons are better at taking out bolt throwers than vice versa. Set up a cross fire, where if he wants to come after you, you can shoot his tanks.


It is way more valuable to take 3 wounds on a Tank than to kill a cannon. I would set it up so your dragon can hide from most of them and see one cannon, then use your tactical wheel on charging the first cannon to set up overruns to kill them all. then go back and try to finish off the tanks.
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dabber
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Re: Advice vs Empire list of doom

#4 Post by dabber »

Deploy everything behind cover except the archers and Swordmasters. Hope he wastes cannon shots on them and misfires.

On your first turn, whether you go first or not, fly the dragons and eagles into position to charge cannons without getting charged by STANKs. If the cannons don't kill you immediately, you win the game.

Don't expect the game to be fun or particularly interesting. It is probably decided by turn 2.
Sanguis
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Re: Advice vs Empire list of doom

#5 Post by Sanguis »

RE the composition.

We decided that after lots of friendlies, we wanted to really test each other with difficult lists.

Hence my two dragons, his list of doom, and the chaos players cavalry force with escorting sorcerers, not to mention the WE players uber mobile list.

Thanks for the advice so far...
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Who8themoon
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Re: Advice vs Empire list of doom

#6 Post by Who8themoon »

As an Empire player myself the only thing I fear when I field my Stank(s) (I took 3 in the last 'Ard Boyz tourney :twisted: ) is Bolt Throwers. Remember you only get full points for killing the Stank as well. As it counts as a warmachine half wounds doesn't net you anything. Although if you can get him down to 3 or so wounds it will basically immobilize the Stank as generating steam points becomes very dangerous. At this point I could see you cleaning up a Stank very easy with your Star Dragon.

With your mobility you should be able to get an eagle or two into his cannons pretty fast. Bow fire vs. eagles is kind of weak and you can get around his gunline's facing pretty easy. If you get the chance to charge an eagle into his gunline's flank, sweet.
Use your range with your archers to plink at his gunline.
Remember he can't move and shoot.
Hide your chariots and DP's as best you can.
Play very conservatively with that Dragon Mage until you get some of that shooting gone. If cover allows go for a hard flanking maneuver with the Mage so that you can cast a little bit, but don't expose that fragile Mage to Hochland shots.

My 2 cents
geoguswrek
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Re: Advice vs Empire list of doom

#7 Post by geoguswrek »

Teclis?
DAMN THE VENOM SWORD
http://www.druchii.net/viewtopic.php?t=44127
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ZehKaiser
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Re: Advice vs Empire list of doom

#8 Post by ZehKaiser »

pk-ng wrote:If he's fielding that I really wonder what kind of friend he is.
My initial reaction was, "OP deserves to go up against a list like this lol" but after reading his response later about the group agreeing to play hard lists, then I'd like to second dabber's advice.
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Minsc
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Re: Advice vs Empire list of doom

#9 Post by Minsc »

War priest (Barded Mount, metioric armour, casket of sorcery)
A Warriorpriest can't have both Armour of Meteoric Iron and Casket of Sorcery because they cost more than 50 pts.
AoMI on a barded warhorse also sounds wrong, sure you got the items right?
lvl 2 wiz (Barded Mount, doomfire ring, extra power dice item)
Empire doesn't have a 'extra PD item' unless that's your name for a Powerstone.
Griffon Prince
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Re: Advice vs Empire list of doom

#10 Post by Griffon Prince »

I'm guessing he's referring to the Rod of Power? The item that stores power dice?
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yellowcommissar
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Re: Advice vs Empire list of doom

#11 Post by yellowcommissar »

My advice is to bring large forests shaped like Ws and Us. :lol:

Seriously, unless he misfires, looks like you're gonna die. :)
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Minsc
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Re: Advice vs Empire list of doom

#12 Post by Minsc »

Griffon Prince wrote:I'm guessing he's referring to the Rod of Power? The item that stores power dice?
Can't combine the RoP with Doomfire ring, it's over 50 pts of magic items.
Sanguis
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Re: Advice vs Empire list of doom

#13 Post by Sanguis »

Well.

1st round complete, i won all three games with massacres.

Vs Woodies... round one magic and shooting saw an irresitable fire ball, and an irrisatable fiery blast, combined with bolt throwers and archer... completely destroy his unit of eternal guard with spellsinger and BSB in. It was over from that point.

Vs Chaos list, he seriously underestimated how much damage dragon princes and chariots do on the charge, as well as placing his sorc lord on disc a fraction within 20" of my prince and dragon. He took first turn and simple marched his entire cavalry line right infront of my well formed battle line. Game ended in him conceding after the end of my first turn, after my DP / Chariots ran through several maurauder horse units, my prince ate his sorc lord, and my dragon mage managed to terror charge and destroy a further unit of knights with a mounted sorc in it.

Vs empire... He got first turn, and due to terrain had a couple of good opertunities with cannons at a bolt thrower and the knights. I was incrediblky lucky in that first shooting phase and saw 2 misfires, and a single wound on the bolt thrower. This gave me the opertunity to rush everything that could, forwards in prep for a turn two assault. The knights went through the woods near them to ensure gunfire would be of little threat, and the bolt throwers started scoring wounds on the tanks. His turn two shooting saw the dragon mage get sniped of the top his dragon by a cannon ball, and the star dragon take 3 wounds, lost a chariot and an eagle, but that was it, and it was over from that point. with my dragons and DPs mopping up the gun line, and the other eagle baiting the pope mobile around. The princes and star dragon eventually ate both tanks, by the end of turn six he just had the pope left, who i had simple ignored for most of the fight.


Round two will likely be different... as the chaos player wont make the same mistakes (he also didnt roll gateway which was lucky for me) and the empire player only needs a slightly luckier shooting phase to wreck me.

we will see.

Thanks for the advice so far...

(Edit - checked with friend, correct items listed in OP now)
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Minsc
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Re: Advice vs Empire list of doom

#14 Post by Minsc »

He got first turn, and due to terrain had a couple of good opertunities with cannons at a bolt thrower and the knights. I was incrediblky lucky in that first shooting phase and saw 2 misfires,
That's karma for taking 4 cannons and 2 Stanks.
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