Weird Star Dragon list vs my HE

[Ptolemy]

Hey all,

I could use some advice on how to take on my upcoming league opponent. He's got a Star Dragon, all chariot, shooty list that is very effective.

Generally, he takes the following:

Star Dragon
Mage (Don't know what levels on these mages)
Mage

6 Chariots (3 white lion, 3 tiranoc

3 x 10 Archers

4 RBTs

I haven't had a chance to play him yet but he has a rep as one of the store's best players.

My own list is a Star Dragon list as well, but I don't think its set up, which is very good against most armies, will work against all those impact hits and Bolt Thrower shots.


I'm thinking the way to go might be to try an Archmage list and take apart his army with a combination of magic and shooting. If so, I'm wondering what lores/mage set ups are best. I obviously need a lvl2 with seerstaff and lore of beasts to shut down the star dragon. Where do I go for lores with my archmage and other lvl2?

Thanks

[Wicksi]

I imagine beasts and lore of metall would be awesome against that and acually ellyrion reavers would probably be quite nice due to there speed (chariots are quite weak when you charge them tbh)

[Wildling04]

I would probably go lore of beasts/lore of beasts on the two mages. You need to be able to hold his dragon up.

For the record, this is a gross list....now, what to do about it...

For once, I actually think silver helms would be the way to go (combined with a unit of dragon princes). Ellyrion Reavers are going to end up being free points for him. SH can actually get to his lines and they can hurt everything in that list except the dragon. They are a cheap, resilient unit. I'd also get 5-6 shadow warriors to scout. Deploying these guys in terrain could allow you to sneak on the flank of one of those chariots (a fight they can win) or get at bolt thrower early. Maybe for specials go with a two units silver helms, a unit of dps, shadow warriors, and a fat pack of white lions with the standard of balance (and maybe the MR1 item just to make sure that they don't eat any magic missiles) to put your mages in.

Where does he put his mages? In the archers? You should be try to panic/kill them with a couple of bolt throwers and any other shooting you have. Destroying his mage bunker will obviously help your magic out a lot and could potentially end the use of his dragon. The skeinsilver may also see good use here as that first turn could be important.

[Citizen Militia]

I wonder if this list is the one which was showed in the painting and modelling section a few months ago. Couldn't tell you off the top of my head which thread it was but he had I think from memory 3x10 archers, stardragon, 2 WLC, 4 Tiranoc, 4 RBT all painted up in green with snow bases and dragon prince models pulling his tiranocs. It was a pretty neatly painted army and quite (loosely) caledorian themed though oddly without even fielding a single dragon prince

EDIT* found it http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=31018 he's from NY, USA is that likely to be near you?

[mike newman]

the mages are both lvl 2 with two scrolls each and they both through 3 dice at drain magic (i dont know if this is true - is just what i would do )

ideas?
boltthrower/archer/reaverbow/ring of fury the chariots as quick as possible. attempt to cower the dragon tho its unlikey. stock up of immune to fear both balance and lion std plus dragonhorn. bunker down with a champion and battle banner bsb an hope the dragon charges it challenge with the champion win combat and run the dragon down if you can lol ellyrion banner princes will be good. hide in terrain if you can to neautralise the chariots or woods to make the dragon less effective.

[pk-ng]

maybe noble with starlance ToL on eagle? just for fun???

[JTFCUP]

FIght Star Dragon with a Star dragon

The basic defensive build for the lord (AoC, VoD, AoL) can take impact hits and not suffer a wound. Then the Star Dragon is S7 and Chariot is dead. If you set up the right charge you can create an overrun move from one chariot to the other and finish with killing both in his turn. So he can`t shoot you with bolt throwers. Same tactic with steam rolling bolt throwers if he sets them up in a line, but it`s better to leave that to some other unit like Great Eagle.

With the Star Dragon the only problem you have in his list are the 4 bolt throwers, kill that and he`s going to lose badly (in case the Star Dragons don`t "meet" each other Than it`s just about the dice and items.

[theviking]

As I see it you will need a way to neutralize all the chariots, a way to handle the dragon, and a way to not be shot up by RBT's. The chariots can be solved by static CR PG, St7, or being charged by DP. SH might do the trick as well but DP have higher In so they will always go first. 20 or so PG with the battle banner BSB would be a good unit to have against both chariots and star dragon. St7 is available through the star dragon, star lance, or DoW. You could take either the cannon or GW wielding maneaters, but I'm a fan of ogres so I'd pick the maneaters. I'd put the starlance on a chicken noble for 20" St7 charge goodness. Archers will probably be the way to go for core, concentrated shooting will bring down the RBT's quickly enough. Add a few eagles too for screwing with the chariots movement or holding up an RBT for a few turns. Your list could be something like:

Star dragon
Starlance chicken noble
BSB w/ battle banner

2x 10 archers

20 PG
2x 5 DP, ellyrion banner?

2x eagles
maneater(s) with GW

This list will be weak against magic of course, but you have archers and eagles to keep mages in their bunkers, and you can avoid those until you are ready to deal with them. I've played a few magicless lists in the past, and by being careful you can usually minimize the amount of damage you take in the magic phase. Or you can prioritize the mages and get them off the table first.

[Citizen Militia]

How about just maxing out your RBT, leaving the star dragon in its case and using an archmage or Teclis with beast cowers on his stardragon, that means your RBT can deal with his chariots before they are needed to turn on big beastie. A mage in support would be usefull and as said the PG would be nice, I'd shy away from Cav because you know he's using 4 RBT.

As for core maybe a block of spears with warbanner, for static CR, could even put Caradryan in if you fancy paying the points. As for specials I would take a couple of units of shadow warriors. Normally I disslike them but you need a way to take out his RBT and I said already to avoid cav (though fortunately your not playing with any units that are going to be crippled by them, it is still a good idea to eliminate them if possible and 2 units of shadow warriors gives you a chance).

I reckon you should be able to fit all that in for the points, your other option which looks good is as has already been said noble star lance ToL eagle

[Lord Anathir]

with a list like that he should have the rep has the store's most abusive player. GT level daemons/des rape that anyways.

[geoguswrek]

option 1:
take woodelves

option 2: take teclis

option 3: heavy magic + lots of armoured stuff.

[Allerion]

ditto on all the comments about being a stupid list.

go all-out magic on him. teclis + BoS + 2 lv2s. I might max out on GEs if youve got them, just to mess with his RBTs, depending how he places them.

and try to place trees so his RBTs cant do much. and if you do it right, you funnel his chariots so they get in each others way.

try to separate when his chariots and dragon hit you. If you can make him arrive in piecemeal, you should be able to deal with the chariots fairly easily.

[Ptolemy]

Thanks for all the advice all. Yes, the link to the images is this fellows army, hah.

What do you all think of the following list:

Lvl 4 Archmage (Staff of Solidity, 2 Power Stones, Ring of Fury) - (Lore of Fire)
Lvl2 - Seerstaff/Dispel - (Lore of Beasts)
Lvl2 - Jewel of Dusk - (Lore of Heavens)
Noble BSB - (Reaver Bow, GW, DA, Shield)

Core
2 x 10 Archers

Special

20 Phoenix Guard (BSB here) - FC, War banner, Skeinsliver

10 Phoenix Guard (Archmage here) - FC, Banner of Sorc

6 Dragon Princes - Std, Ellyrion

3 x RBT

1 x Eagle

My thought is to use a lot of MM magic rather than big huge spells. 2D6 and D6 ST4 hits will be murder to everything in the list except for the Dragon, who I hope to lock down with Beast Cowers. RBT and Reaver Bow shooting will take our chariots and his RBTs quickly. PG seems like the unit choice best able to weather all the shooting and impact hits to maintain enough CR to break chariots. Eagle will go war machine hunting, DPs will go flying up the flank, to set up overrun charges against RBT crews.

I've never done an Archmage list before so feel free to comment.

Thanks!