What army do you fear the most playing High Elves?

[Muadib]

Hello everyone. I would like to learn more what to fear about enemy armies. That is why I would like to know what enemy you fear the most as an High Elves player. Also tell us why or what army to fear least stuff like that. I combined the poll choices of chaos and undead because making a poll has an 12 options limit.

I have not enough experience as a beginner but I fear Chaos Warriors the most although I have only played 1 game with HE vs Bretonnia.

[Kiwi]

Dark Elves bother me the most with it be against my High Elves or Dwarfs. They seem to be very hard to beat in standard tournament play. Other than that I think every army is beatable its just takes good generalship which takes time to develop,

[WarpPhoenix]

is there a limit on option? Because I think you would do well to seperate the chaos warriors option with the chaos daemons option, leave out beastmen as they're new, drop ogres too if you are limited on poll slots.

[geoguswrek]

Daemons, obviously. Then dark elves, vc, dwarves.

[saintjon]

In my admittedly limited experience I have found dwarves to be the biggest pain in the ass. Top tier books may have meaner stuff, but they also tend to have more stuff I can actually kill.

[Siegfried VII]

In my admittedly limited experience I have found dwarves to be the biggest pain in the ass. Top tier books may have meaner stuff, but they also tend to have more stuff I can actually kill.

I agree.

[dabber]

How can anyone justify an answer other than Daemons or Dark Elves? Daemons are the nastiest army in the game, even with special characters banned. They are horribly difficult to kill and their characters are insane. Dark Elves do everything as well or better than High Elves.

[Lord Anathir]

all of them except ogres.

[pk-ng]

How can anyone justify an answer other than Daemons or Dark Elves? Daemons are the nastiest army in the game, even with special characters banned. They are horribly difficult to kill and their characters are insane. Dark Elves do everything as well or better than High Elves.

And have cheaper units....

[Baerion]

The only game I have played vs Demons I have won which may be why I chose Dark Elves who have beaten me 6 out of 7 games with my High elves. The one time I won was the last time I played them in which I brought the nastiest list I could think of just to get the W...

I've also had a lot of trouble beating Orcs and Goblins with my high elves for some reason...Most of the armies I play though don't have a lot of infantry which could be the difference.

[Wicksi]

in my opinion its Dwarfs because they are hard to kill and they a resolute and almost never runs AND they shoot you too bits.

DC and VC I find quite fun to play against but you have to have alot of meatgrinders like swordmasters (since they never run you acually have to kill them)

I cant really se why people dislike dark elves sure the hydra can be devestating and there shooting can be but seriously in close combat you almost always butcher them before they have any chance to use there hatred anyway :S

Just my thoughts though

[SpellArcher]

They are horribly difficult to kill and their characters are insane

But otherwise quite pleasant, no?

I cant really se why people dislike dark elves sure the hydra can be devestating and there shooting can be but seriously in close combat you almost always butcher them before they have any chance to use there hatred anyway :S

I think it will generally be some kind of horrible monster the DE player lets you fight or Black Guard if he's feeling sportsmanlike.

You can kill the Dwarf missile troops if you can reach them. Otherwise it's a case of massive CR IMHO.

[Cythis]

I haven't found deamons to be the worst of matchups. swords fare well against all of their standard shock infantry, and they have no armour saves which makes for a lot of wounds. I think that good advice vs them is actually dividing fire with shooting and magic. Depleted deamon units are much worse off in combat, as the loss of a flesh hound or two will often mean a 3-5 point swing in CR at the end of the round which means more wounds with no saves from instability. Focus firing down an entire unit can take multiple turns but if the opponent has 5-6 hounds on either flank, taking out 1 or two can render them much less of a threat. Oh and then there are always tzeentch troops (flamers), LoC, and firestorm blade khorne heroes to take advantage of with DP's and characters.

Dark elves are by far the worst matchup imo. They can field a good amount of multirole harassment or redirection units for core. They have the best missile weapon in the game for a BS 4 army, and can get it not only on cheap, armoured core shooters and fast cav with hatred, but also underpriced SPECIAL SLOT scouts with bs 5 ws 5 hatred and great weapons. Any of our auxiliary shooters are more expensive, far worse at shooting, and don't fulfill core requirements. They have absurd magic item 1 of which makes magic even less reliable, and one of which is just flat stupid. They also have elite infantry that can asf at higher i, assassins that can asf at MAX initiative, underpriced monsters that benefit from hatred, brutal magic with the ability to attack war machine crews directly or shut down a shooting unit with a bloody d6 s4, etc etc etc. They aren't so absurd as to have everything in one list but the shooting+monster+points efficient support is a ubiquitous presence and one that can be hard to handle as high elves.

Dwarves can be hard too depending upon the list. If you have the SD, or a DP heavy list with lots of magic it can be pretty hard for them to win, but on the flip-side, most of their units will be stubborn in combat, and their war machines devastate pretty much every unit in our army unless they have flaming attacks in which case the dwarves can be rather boned.

Other than that, I'd say lizzies and skaven are pretty tough. Warriors can also be annoying but this is mainly because my archmage always kills himself even casting on 3 dice vs the puppet lol. It would be a broken item in an army with something to field other than fast cav, and heavily armoured, slow, expensive, t4 models.

[saintjon]

Well as far as CR goes against dwarves we have what, the battle banner? They can tool up standards and massive units any number of ways to heap a mountain of static combat res. Or they can sprinkle stubborn around. Or they can counter a battle banner with the rune of challenge and force you to charge an unbreakable/stubborn unit or flee. I am a firm believer that there are no easy wins against dwarves, at least not for us.

[SpellArcher]

Fair play, to be honest virtually every game I've ever played against Dwarfs has ended in a minor win for them.

Battle Banner is one route. A DP bus with Standard of Balance will be immune to the Rune of Challenge. Combined charges with chariots can work. Stubborn obviously a problem though, that's one for the Swordmasters.

[geoguswrek]

most of the dwarf army is stubborn unbreakable, or worth next to no points.

[SpellArcher]

I think it depends on the comp.

One guy let me have a go at a unit of Longbeards with my Chariot Lord and a unit of DP's. They weren't stubborn but he still had a re-rollable 4 to stand, a 1-in-3 I think.

[Kiwi]

most of the dwarf army is stubborn unbreakable, or worth next to no points.

Not true mate I usually run Dwarfs. Only Slayers are unbreakable and the have no armour. Hammerers are Stubborn but cost a lot. Although at L9 or L10 (within 12" of General) most units arent running anywhere. But in most Dwarf armies you will get to field a max of 3 large infantry blocks usually a combo of Longbeards/Ironbreakers or Longbeards/Hammerers. Yes I will crush you in HtH combat but HE greater movement and tactical flexibility make it difficult for me to get you into melee.

For HE fighting Dwarfs your primary targets should always be:
- Warmachines --> concentrate all your fire and magic on them first, kill the crews, use Commandment of Brass and get rid of them quick
- Thunderers --> will chew threw Dragon Princes and our other heavy units, kill them quick while using movement to stay out of infantrys way
- Slayers --> Not usually fielded in tournaments but a horrible roadblock

Kill those guys first then use movement to get around outflank, rear charge etc the 2-3 big blocks of infantry they are likely to have. Once the Dwarven shooting phase is negated we are very vulnerable to being surrounded your faster movement means you can avoid us easily while the RBTs, Eagles etc kill of the shooting units. Remember even without terrain and other factors it takes a Dwarven army FOUR turns to march from their deployment zone to yours in a straight line. Thats 4 turns in which you can shoot and magic the rubbish out of us.

Although I have to admit when playing HE vs. Dwarfs I usually do pretty well (benefits of being a Dwarf player)

[geoguswrek]

All the warmachines are stubborn and the anvil is unbreakable.

The last time i played dwarves it was against:
thorek
some shooters
2 organ guns
flaming bolt thrower
2x15 ish hammerers
some miners
maybe a unit of warriors?

So the only non-stubborn stuff where th miners, who you can't catch and the shooters, who are worth so few points. (i would however have won if we hadn't been playing a stupid bloody scenario)

[Baerion]

2 organ guns...as a dwarf player I can say that I've never done that as I feel the Organ Guns are really good and two of them is quite a bit over the top. However, I'm sure it would be fun as hell (for the dwarf player).

[Kiwi]

True Warmachine crews are stubborn but only have light armour so are easy to kill, and yeah 2 Organ Guns is OTT

[geoguswrek]

2 organ guns and thorek is standard fare for the GWGT.
Also, i ran a BSB into one organ gun. he got shot in the face once, but kept going.

[saintjon]

I'm not sure how Standard of Balance negates the Rune of Challenge? There's nowhere in that Rune's description that mentions any of the common psychology rules by name from the BRB. Given that I don't know how Immune to Psychology can protect you from it, unless it was faq'ed or something

[Minsc]

Skaven due to it's T-Test spamm that happens before ASF kicks in + Abo/Doomwheel. Plus their magic (Plauge) really screams "Anti-Elf-Lore-Nr1".

Daemons don't scare me more when I play HE than when I play say, Empire, WoC, DE or WE.

Dwarfs are boring and a pain to play against as HE, but they don't "scare" me. Our units can usually go toe-to-toe with theirs and usually come out as victors in the end. (it's reaching them that's the problem).

I'm not afraid of Dark Elves since I play them as well and know more or less every trick they have up their sleeve and know most "do's and don't" against them.

Ogres, OnG and Bretonnia are a pushover.
Wood Elves are usually easy to deal with. Warriors of Chaos is a fun and fluffy matchup
Empire can be tricky but once we hit their line they usually die fast. (I have never played against Waltar+2 Stanks thought and I doubt I will.)
Balanced Lizardmen lists are usually not too hard to deal with.
Haven't played against the new Beasts.
Tomb Kings are easy to deal with except for Chariot spamm. VC is easy if you have enough DD. (Lion Standard and Standard of Balance are godly against them)

[Alathenar]

For me, LM and Dwarfs send a chill down my spine as its just like walking into brick walls when versing them.

[SpellArcher]

I'm not sure how Standard of Balance negates the Rune of Challenge?

I was pretty sure the description excepted ITP. I'll check my Dwarf book and get back to you.

[Siegfried VII]

I'm not sure how Standard of Balance negates the Rune of Challenge?

I was pretty sure the description excepted ITP. I'll check my Dwarf book and get back to you.

It does. Immune to phycology units cannot be affected by the rune of challenge.

[geoguswrek]

Of course they can't, if they could then it would be as god as siren song and we do not want any book to be anthers near as good as daemons.

[saintjon]

Fair enough but I seldom find myself with ITP dragon princes when my infantry usually needs those standards, and it's not the easiest thing to be unable to charge whoever has it when you don't really know which dwarf has the thing to begin with and you have a 16" charge range. I teamed up with a dwarf player a month ago for a tournament and in no game was there not a juicy target for the rune. You guys make good points but I hate fighting dwarves.

[geoguswrek]

I dislike fighting dwarves, not because i find them hard to beat (without thorek it isn't too bad) but because they are so damn boring.