SCGT Magic

[SpellArcher]

Ok so this comp is being used for several UK tournaments already and I am trying to work out magic phases. The limitations are maximum 9PD (actual, not used in a phase like ETC), bound spells counting as one PD and Banner of Sorcery as two. The maximum defence likely is 6DD and 2 scrolls.

WarpPhoenix has already made a good case for Book of Hoeth. This is on a level 4, accompanied by a caddy and Sorcery. Stormie pointed out that while the Slann's Focused Rumination is comped, the Dragon Mage's Reckless isn't, so Archmage, Dragon Mage, Sorcery is strong and legal. Lastly, 2xLvl2 plus Sorcery is of course allowed, the advantage being that you can take a Star Dragon with it. Seerstaff on one Mage and I reckon there's a case for Jewel on the other.

What else though? The classic Archmage + Mage + Sorcery build is nerfed because with Fury it's 11 dice. I looked at a Lvl3 Archmage with Seer, Lvl2 with Wand and Sorcery. Maybe Lvl4 with Seer, Lvl 2 with Jewel? It seems that the level 2 with Seerstaff doesn't really fit the comp very well.

Any ideas?

[GobbladasSquig]

I think I'd do

Prince w/ Radiant Gem

2x lvl 2 w/ Sigil+GoC and Seer+Scroll

BSB w/ Sorcery

for maximum aesthetics.


'Squiggedit: Fixed a silly mistake.

[WarpPhoenix]

Something to note is that I have recently put the silver wand on the caddy and the caddy has turned into a wonder for the magic phase. He will get two spells (hopefully low cast spells) which are usually on High Lore (so Drain + saphery +whatever). It may not seem like something to jump around about, but when this mage starts casting his spells my opponent now has a choice, do I let this mages spells go through (I only do this when i get 2 or more dice on Sorc) so I can MAYBE dispell the book of Hoeth spells? Or do I stop them because im not stopping the Archmages? A lot of the time they let them through because sometimes my archmage doesnt actually get a double cos I'll only roll 3 dice for a 2D6 S4 spell or something.

[Bel-Hathe]

I am running a SCGT build with one Archmage with Seerstaff, two scrolls (would love 3) and Guardian Phoenix and Banner of Sorcery. I have found the magic phase surprisingly effective and like the ability to pick the four spells I want. I am thinking of swapping the Guardian Phoenix for a Power stone. An additional L1 mage would be good for extra magic defence (carrying Annulian crystal or tricksters pendant) but I have not tried that.

[SpellArcher]

Yes, solo Archmage plus Sorcery may be a goer Bel-Hathe. Wand+2 Scrolls+Fury must be worth a look. Warp Phoenix makes a very interesting point. I always think it's good to have at least a Lvl1 as support but traditionally his casting has been ignored in the Hoeth build. Casting with him first as WP seems to get some mileage out of him.

Nice try Gobbla but I think you're looking at 10PD equivalent. I'm looking at Prince+Fury, Seermage, Gem BSB, Sorcery on DP's, which is 8. I'm confident I can get spells past the defence cap with it.

[GobbladasSquig]

Oh yeah, successfully missed the first sentence of the original post. Good going.

Then I would drop Fury+Wand for Sigil of Asuryan + Gem of Courage probably.

I'm looking at Prince+Fury, Seermage, Gem BSB, Sorcery on DP's, which is 8. I'm confident I can get spells past the defence cap with it.

Yeah, you just have to pick those two spells carefully. The problem with taking spells like Beast Cowers with that build is that you might end up without a target somewhere midgame and then only have Crow's Feast to cast for the rest of the game.

[geoguswrek]

you take it with wolf hunts, that is useful all game.

[GobbladasSquig]

In a balanced army I've found that Wolf Hunts is useful in about two turns out of six. The fact that it's not a free move and it's not reliable at all really limits its use. If you take wolf hunts and beast cowers you get a very situational selection of spells that you have to actively keep in your mind during movement and your opponent's turn. I usually follow the principle of always having at least one damage spell on every caster.

But yeah, I've faced a HE army with star dragon and 2x dragon princes with double Wolf Hunts and Beast Cowers (I played O&G with wyvern) and I know how devastating it can be in the right army and at the right moment.

[Bel-Hathe]

... Wand+2 Scrolls+Fury must be worth a look.

It is, but I have been trying to take Shadows each time and wanted to be sure of getting Lurker and Pit. Tempting to have Fury though .......

Phoenix makes a very interesting point. I always think it's good to have at least a Lvl1 as support but traditionally his casting has been ignored in the Hoeth build. Casting with him first as WP seems to get some mileage out of him....
.

I used the Book for a long run at my club, enjoyed it but did not find it game changing. I don't think that it adds enough in the SCGT comp system because the DD and scroll limit means that spells get through anyway.

[SpellArcher]

Yeah, you just have to pick those two spells carefully.

This is true but if you take High on the Lvl1 you can sometimes cast two spells with him. A phase where you're casting three 2 or 3 die spells can be effective as even six dice won't stop it for long. Fury just piles more pressure on.

It is, but I have been trying to take Shadows each time and wanted to be sure of getting Lurker and Pit. Tempting to have Fury though .......

This is the old Wand/Seer debate isn't it? Lizardmen have this too though the issue is more cost with them I think.

I don't think that it adds enough in the SCGT comp system because the DD and scroll limit means that spells get through anyway.

A good point. Though I guess the advantage of the Book is that your opponent doesn't get to choose which spell gets through.

[Bel-Hathe]

The SCGT comp is requiring some difficult choices to be made - I hope all armies are in a similar position!

[geoguswrek]

gobblas: you take beasts when there is a big monster around, meaning you want beast cowers anyway. With a mounted bsb plus a unit of dragon princes, you have a good chance of setting something up every turn. I'd only recommend it when you have dominant magic, but in that case, it works pretty well.

[SpellArcher]

The SCGT comp is requiring some difficult choices to be made - I hope all armies are in a similar position!

I guess that means it's working!

Dark Elves in particular are having to re-jig, Ring of Hotek being a particular bugbear. It can't be taken on a Dragon or champion so I've seen lists with a Ring Master in a unit of Dark Riders to babysit the Dragon. Plus the caddy's out.