1001 Uses for Swordmaster Contingents
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1001 Uses for Swordmaster Contingents
Inspired by another topic I have decided to compile a list of uses for small swordmaster units of 7. These units are cheap and given our large Special choice allowance are very viable options. There will not actually be 1001 uses, but a healthy amount. Feel free to add more uses to this list in the form of posts and I'll be glad to add them!
The uses are going to be listed according to which army you are facing, then breaking down to unit to unit fighting. I not gonig to include Beastmen as we are yet to see their tricks and playstyle.
Bretonnia:
To influence and direct the charge of all knight units
To be used as a very effective flanking unit after fleeing with a different unit
To grind down any units of infantry they may have
To kill their human stat line heroes
Daemons:
To match and kill Bloodletters who are heroless
To stop Horrors from casting and kill them in the proccess
To offer a 50/50 chance of stomping hounds where they stand, a much more expensive unit that most of our other units wouldnt be able to handle.
To knock wounds off of Bloodthirsters you need to weaken before trying to kill it through combat res
To hold units Daemonettes and kill them every round
Dark Elves:
For holding any of their infantry units in place who dont have an ASF banner
To kill offensive based Nobles and Supreme Sorceresses who are in units
To hit Cold One Knights hard
To threaten anything that doesnt have a crossbow
Dwarves:
To be the first to hit the front line and grind down the dwarf units who wont run, but will stand and die
To offer a solution to Slayer units
As fodder
To catch miners before they do their damage
Empire
To beat Greatsword units with ease
To grind down Flaggelent units
To beat any footslog unit
To stop small knight units
More gun fodder
To flank steam tanks and knock a wound or two off
To hit a war alter and give a good attempt at killing the chariot itself without expending too many points
Lizardmen:
To force a skink dart volley towards them, if they dont the skinks will die
To beat Saurus warriors in small or large unit size
To flank temple guard, if done will keep them in place for a long time
To assassinate skinks intop of engines, netting a lot of points back
Effective against both kroxigor and Saurus Cavalry
Ogre Kingdoms
Sweeping Gnoblars in a single turn with little point extendment
Taking Ogre Bull units down by marching into their face, denying bull charge and killing them all when they do charge
Same thing for ironguts
Somehwat good at killing tuchers if they can catch them
Orcs & Goblins
Killing all ranked up units with ease
Killing all cavalry with ease
Skaven
if flanking the a plague furnace unit can keep it there for the game
Can kill stormvermin very easily, same goes for anything below their points cost
To murder characters
To draw fire away from the dragon pricnes from Toughness tests
Can kill Censor bearers on a 50/50 chance depending on how many T tests you pass, if beaten then points made back are worth the gamble
Same thing for Gutter runners as for Miners
Tomb Kings
To engage all ranked up units
To assassinate a Heirophant if caught
To take the heat from killing the general
To watch over a tomb scorpion area and take its charge
To grind down Swarms and Ushabti
Vampire Counts
To engange and beat Zombies, Skeletons and Ghouls
To halt black knight advances
To hold up grave guard units
To assassinate lesser vampires since a high armour save costs quite a few points and limits them on other options
Warriors of Chaos
To kill any kind of marauders that come into view of them
To kill dogs and other chaff
Excellent flanking force against blocks of warriors
To give a match to great weapon weilding Chosen who dont have mark of nurgle
To finish off weakened Dragon Ogre units
To misdirect knight units and maybe kill a couple on the way
Wood Elves
To take the hit from Wild Riders
To charge and knock a wound or two off of treemen
To take the charge from Dryads or charge them themselves, easily killing them
To rival Wardancers
Feel free to add to the list!
The uses are going to be listed according to which army you are facing, then breaking down to unit to unit fighting. I not gonig to include Beastmen as we are yet to see their tricks and playstyle.
Bretonnia:
To influence and direct the charge of all knight units
To be used as a very effective flanking unit after fleeing with a different unit
To grind down any units of infantry they may have
To kill their human stat line heroes
Daemons:
To match and kill Bloodletters who are heroless
To stop Horrors from casting and kill them in the proccess
To offer a 50/50 chance of stomping hounds where they stand, a much more expensive unit that most of our other units wouldnt be able to handle.
To knock wounds off of Bloodthirsters you need to weaken before trying to kill it through combat res
To hold units Daemonettes and kill them every round
Dark Elves:
For holding any of their infantry units in place who dont have an ASF banner
To kill offensive based Nobles and Supreme Sorceresses who are in units
To hit Cold One Knights hard
To threaten anything that doesnt have a crossbow
Dwarves:
To be the first to hit the front line and grind down the dwarf units who wont run, but will stand and die
To offer a solution to Slayer units
As fodder
To catch miners before they do their damage
Empire
To beat Greatsword units with ease
To grind down Flaggelent units
To beat any footslog unit
To stop small knight units
More gun fodder
To flank steam tanks and knock a wound or two off
To hit a war alter and give a good attempt at killing the chariot itself without expending too many points
Lizardmen:
To force a skink dart volley towards them, if they dont the skinks will die
To beat Saurus warriors in small or large unit size
To flank temple guard, if done will keep them in place for a long time
To assassinate skinks intop of engines, netting a lot of points back
Effective against both kroxigor and Saurus Cavalry
Ogre Kingdoms
Sweeping Gnoblars in a single turn with little point extendment
Taking Ogre Bull units down by marching into their face, denying bull charge and killing them all when they do charge
Same thing for ironguts
Somehwat good at killing tuchers if they can catch them
Orcs & Goblins
Killing all ranked up units with ease
Killing all cavalry with ease
Skaven
if flanking the a plague furnace unit can keep it there for the game
Can kill stormvermin very easily, same goes for anything below their points cost
To murder characters
To draw fire away from the dragon pricnes from Toughness tests
Can kill Censor bearers on a 50/50 chance depending on how many T tests you pass, if beaten then points made back are worth the gamble
Same thing for Gutter runners as for Miners
Tomb Kings
To engage all ranked up units
To assassinate a Heirophant if caught
To take the heat from killing the general
To watch over a tomb scorpion area and take its charge
To grind down Swarms and Ushabti
Vampire Counts
To engange and beat Zombies, Skeletons and Ghouls
To halt black knight advances
To hold up grave guard units
To assassinate lesser vampires since a high armour save costs quite a few points and limits them on other options
Warriors of Chaos
To kill any kind of marauders that come into view of them
To kill dogs and other chaff
Excellent flanking force against blocks of warriors
To give a match to great weapon weilding Chosen who dont have mark of nurgle
To finish off weakened Dragon Ogre units
To misdirect knight units and maybe kill a couple on the way
Wood Elves
To take the hit from Wild Riders
To charge and knock a wound or two off of treemen
To take the charge from Dryads or charge them themselves, easily killing them
To rival Wardancers
Feel free to add to the list!
Hey, does this cloth smell like chloroform?
Re: 1001 Uses for Swordmaster Contingents
Nicely done warp! I hardily bring SM to my army cause they have done badly for me, so obviously I'm doing something wrong! but after reading that it has brought new light to them and I'll prolly start fielding them!
ETC WHFB Team Singapore
2014 - Chaos Dwarfs & Most Favoured Enemy
2015 - High Elves & Top HE
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Highborn Elves - ex-Army Support
2014 - Chaos Dwarfs & Most Favoured Enemy
2015 - High Elves & Top HE
T9A
Highborn Elves - Army Book Committee
Balancing Board
Highborn Elves - ex-Army Support
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Re: 1001 Uses for Swordmaster Contingents
Just a bit of theorey-hammer,
The echelon formation relies upon you advancing in either a wedge or a diagonal formation, hence if anyone flank charges you there is a unit waiting to flank them and so on. Yet the distance required to out flank your furthest away unit is too much to get around your entire line. There was a topic a while ago where people were discussing using it with hoarde armies (namely skaven) but I honestly think it could be better suited to certain other situations. At the time I thought it may actually be a way of using ogres, since they don't really require ranks and 4 of them is easily as wide as any hoard unit would be, hence 6 units or so could span a board and they would be tough enough to not do too bad
But... just now I suddenly thought; swordmasters don't rely on ranks, they are superior to almost any enemy they face and 6 units 7 wide would again easily span a board. 6 units of 14 swordmasters each would be 1260 points with no upgrades, that leaves plenty of points to pile up on magic users and you end up with a very neatly themed sapherry army. My main question is could it work? Maybe putting in one unit of white lions or korhill to get stubbornness? You could then round it off with 2 RBT, 2 Eagles, a small unit of spears to guard the far flank and a unit of archers
The echelon formation relies upon you advancing in either a wedge or a diagonal formation, hence if anyone flank charges you there is a unit waiting to flank them and so on. Yet the distance required to out flank your furthest away unit is too much to get around your entire line. There was a topic a while ago where people were discussing using it with hoarde armies (namely skaven) but I honestly think it could be better suited to certain other situations. At the time I thought it may actually be a way of using ogres, since they don't really require ranks and 4 of them is easily as wide as any hoard unit would be, hence 6 units or so could span a board and they would be tough enough to not do too bad
But... just now I suddenly thought; swordmasters don't rely on ranks, they are superior to almost any enemy they face and 6 units 7 wide would again easily span a board. 6 units of 14 swordmasters each would be 1260 points with no upgrades, that leaves plenty of points to pile up on magic users and you end up with a very neatly themed sapherry army. My main question is could it work? Maybe putting in one unit of white lions or korhill to get stubbornness? You could then round it off with 2 RBT, 2 Eagles, a small unit of spears to guard the far flank and a unit of archers
since returning to the game after a 5 year break I have had 1 massacre loss, 3 minor losses, 2 draws, 3 minor wins, 3 solid wins, 2 massacres :)
Re: 1001 Uses for Swordmaster Contingents
That echelon would be pretty easy to shoot a couple very large holes into IMO.
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Re: 1001 Uses for Swordmaster Contingents
CM: 6 units of 7-8 swordmasters , plus a few units to actually do some damage? (the swords only cost about 600-700 points this way, which is about the same as a dragon) why bother with 14's? go small then the units are cheap enough that if they run into things they can't beat, it isn't a huge loss of points and you can make them up with the other stuff you have bought.
DAMN THE VENOM SWORD
http://www.druchii.net/viewtopic.php?t=44127
http://www.druchii.net/viewtopic.php?t=44127
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Re: 1001 Uses for Swordmaster Contingents
6 units of 7 Swordmasters, 4 Eagles, 2 units of 10 spears and the rest into characters (all on eagles or something that flies)
Hey, does this cloth smell like chloroform?
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Re: 1001 Uses for Swordmaster Contingents
thanks to this thread i know what my next army will look like (i'm not joking, this is my new Elf army to relax with)
Level 4, horse, silver wand, 2 scrolls, ring of fury
level 2, horse, seerstaff, scroll (i want three scrolls)
unkillable bsb (trademark)
10 archers
10 archers
4x7 swordsmen, musicians
7 swordsmen
12 swordsmen, banner, banner of sorcery,
2 RBT
Eagle
2000 points
Level 4, horse, silver wand, 2 scrolls, ring of fury
level 2, horse, seerstaff, scroll (i want three scrolls)
unkillable bsb (trademark)
10 archers
10 archers
4x7 swordsmen, musicians
7 swordsmen
12 swordsmen, banner, banner of sorcery,
2 RBT
Eagle
2000 points
DAMN THE VENOM SWORD
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- grantmepower
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Re: 1001 Uses for Swordmaster Contingents
You just cursed itgeoguswrek wrote: unkillable bsb (trademark)
I've run 7-strong units in the past, and they are nice, but a bit too easy to shoot to bits with a single good volley. I like larger units of 12-14 for this reason, though it does get a bit expensive.
~Grant
Ulthuan in Flames: 13/9/6 Bel Hathor 77 kills
Re: 1001 Uses for Swordmaster Contingents
Ideally 6 7-strong units is a good idea on paper, but tehy will get torn apart by even 2 units of handgunners. Sure you got 42 5+ T3 wounds, but how many panic tests is that? And each T3 5+ wound is 15 points! Swordmasters are good but you can't just spam them and call them the cure-all. Its also not very tactically flattering. You still need balance.
Here is the list I use:
(Swordmaster heavy but balanced)
Archmage 355
Level 4
Vortex Shard
Dispel Scroll
Mage 185
Level 2
Seerstaff
Dispel Scroll
Archers 110
Archers 110
14 Swordmasters 275
Full Command
Lion Standard
Gem of Courage
14 Swordmasters 295
Full Command
Standard of Balance
Talisman of Loec
7 Swordmasters 105
7 Swordmasters 105
5 Shadow Warriors 80
5 Shadow Warriors 80
2 Repeater Bolt Throwers 200
2 Great Eagles 100
Swordmasters are only good at killing things, that means they still face numerous problems, namely ranged attacks and psychology.
To counter ranged attacks I took 2 eagles and 2 units of Shadow warriors in which both have done what I needed, keeping ranged units in combat.
I over killed on magic defense on purpose. I am okay whether my opponent brings just a caddy or a council of wizards. A caddy can't handle my six levels of magic. A vortex shard, 2 Dispel Scrolls and 5 dispel dice has assured me that I will never worry about magic frying my little glass hammers ever again. Magic has ruined my army too many times to the point that its never wrong to be TOO safe in this category imho.
The problem with 7 Swordmasters is it only takes one bad combat full of fluff rolls to fall apart. They are obviously still useful, because I have 2 in my list. I took 2 decently sized Swordmaster units with the immune to psych banners making them reliable as anything. Banner of Sorcery is not worth Immune to psych in my opinion. Its just one extra spell in my magic phase in exchange for reliability.
I took 2 RBT instead of another set of eagles because I wanted a respectable shooting phase. With a shooting phase, I try to focus on things that pose a threat to my mages. It has always helped and i like to compete in all phases of the game.
Here is the list I use:
(Swordmaster heavy but balanced)
Archmage 355
Level 4
Vortex Shard
Dispel Scroll
Mage 185
Level 2
Seerstaff
Dispel Scroll
Archers 110
Archers 110
14 Swordmasters 275
Full Command
Lion Standard
Gem of Courage
14 Swordmasters 295
Full Command
Standard of Balance
Talisman of Loec
7 Swordmasters 105
7 Swordmasters 105
5 Shadow Warriors 80
5 Shadow Warriors 80
2 Repeater Bolt Throwers 200
2 Great Eagles 100
Swordmasters are only good at killing things, that means they still face numerous problems, namely ranged attacks and psychology.
To counter ranged attacks I took 2 eagles and 2 units of Shadow warriors in which both have done what I needed, keeping ranged units in combat.
I over killed on magic defense on purpose. I am okay whether my opponent brings just a caddy or a council of wizards. A caddy can't handle my six levels of magic. A vortex shard, 2 Dispel Scrolls and 5 dispel dice has assured me that I will never worry about magic frying my little glass hammers ever again. Magic has ruined my army too many times to the point that its never wrong to be TOO safe in this category imho.
The problem with 7 Swordmasters is it only takes one bad combat full of fluff rolls to fall apart. They are obviously still useful, because I have 2 in my list. I took 2 decently sized Swordmaster units with the immune to psych banners making them reliable as anything. Banner of Sorcery is not worth Immune to psych in my opinion. Its just one extra spell in my magic phase in exchange for reliability.
I took 2 RBT instead of another set of eagles because I wanted a respectable shooting phase. With a shooting phase, I try to focus on things that pose a threat to my mages. It has always helped and i like to compete in all phases of the game.
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Re: 1001 Uses for Swordmaster Contingents
So you've taken my fun little swordsmen spam list and turned it into something competetive? i wasn't going for a competetive list, i wanted something challenging to use. (while there are a few people at my local i who are on a similar level to me, there are also a good few where i need to deliberately take soft lists in order to allow for a challenging game).
plus you've got the vortex shard!
I'd rather just throw my BSB magic and shooting the enemy shooting and walk at the enemy combat stuff and see what happens.
plus you've got the vortex shard!
I'd rather just throw my BSB magic and shooting the enemy shooting and walk at the enemy combat stuff and see what happens.
DAMN THE VENOM SWORD
http://www.druchii.net/viewtopic.php?t=44127
http://www.druchii.net/viewtopic.php?t=44127
Re: 1001 Uses for Swordmaster Contingents
@ george
I got the inclination of competitiveness when you had a spam list, so I saw it appropriate to share the list I am using since it was similar to yours. I had no intention of raining on your parade, just bring advice from my personal experience.
I simply went for an all-comers approach, limiting myself to a Saphery theme. Its a list I have been using exclusively for about 2 months now with mixed success, but I blame my losses on my own skills as a general but sometimes bad dice. It might be more competitive but it also has more of a diversity unit-wise meaning its more adaptable to any match up.
Here is where my Swordmaster heavy list started from:
http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=29394
P.S. The only people that have given me a hard time for using the Vortex Shard are people who invested so many points in magic that they deserved it
I got the inclination of competitiveness when you had a spam list, so I saw it appropriate to share the list I am using since it was similar to yours. I had no intention of raining on your parade, just bring advice from my personal experience.
I simply went for an all-comers approach, limiting myself to a Saphery theme. Its a list I have been using exclusively for about 2 months now with mixed success, but I blame my losses on my own skills as a general but sometimes bad dice. It might be more competitive but it also has more of a diversity unit-wise meaning its more adaptable to any match up.
Here is where my Swordmaster heavy list started from:
http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=29394
P.S. The only people that have given me a hard time for using the Vortex Shard are people who invested so many points in magic that they deserved it
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Re: 1001 Uses for Swordmaster Contingents
Spamming the same unit of 7 swordmasters is never gonna get you a competitive list, i know that. Also i'm clearly not going for WaaC since i haven't even used all my rare slots! I realise it isn't an all comers style of list, since fighting a gunline will be boring, but if i'm playing someone cheesy enough to bring a gunline, i won't be bringing an all swordmasters army with me.
On the vortex shard front, i just think its boring, not cheesy.
On the vortex shard front, i just think its boring, not cheesy.
DAMN THE VENOM SWORD
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Re: 1001 Uses for Swordmaster Contingents
So today in a game agaisnt ogres a single 7 wide unit of swordmasters went through the following.
3 Ironguts
3 Bulls
2 Leadbelchers
23 gnoblars
10 gnoblar trappers
1 Maneater who was with a Tyrant in a building, i charged and killed the maneater several times over and the Tyrant missed all his attacks and broke out of the building.
3 Ironguts
3 Bulls
2 Leadbelchers
23 gnoblars
10 gnoblar trappers
1 Maneater who was with a Tyrant in a building, i charged and killed the maneater several times over and the Tyrant missed all his attacks and broke out of the building.
Hey, does this cloth smell like chloroform?
Re: 1001 Uses for Swordmaster Contingents
Democracy triumphs! Boy Scouts show Tyrant error of his ways!
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[color=red]Surprise is an event that takes place in the mind of the enemy commander[/color]
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdU1F54FEOU]Crowbot_Jenny[/url]
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_1AfDgZttw]Sunrise[/url]
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[url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01jrt6b/The_Castle_Series_4_Episode_5/]The_Castle_Series_4_Episode_5[/url]
[i]But this did not surprise them, for as it is written in the Great Elven Book of Knowing:[/i] Isn't life just one bloody thing after another.
[color=red]Surprise is an event that takes place in the mind of the enemy commander[/color]
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdU1F54FEOU]Crowbot_Jenny[/url]
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_1AfDgZttw]Sunrise[/url]
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[url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01jrt6b/The_Castle_Series_4_Episode_5/]The_Castle_Series_4_Episode_5[/url]
[i]But this did not surprise them, for as it is written in the Great Elven Book of Knowing:[/i] Isn't life just one bloody thing after another.
- Flame of the Asuryan
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Re: 1001 Uses for Swordmaster Contingents
Big hack'n'slashfest! How many did you lose?
-"Humans are the cruelest of animals" Friedrich Nietzsche -
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Re: 1001 Uses for Swordmaster Contingents
Probably not a lot, since he was playing ogres, who are remarkably bad at dealing with swordmasters.
DAMN THE VENOM SWORD
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Re: 1001 Uses for Swordmaster Contingents
In that game i got 2750 points off of him and i lost about 400 (unit of swords, unit of archers, a bolt thrower and half points off a mage)
The unit of swords that got killed got charged by a unit of ironguts with two heroes in them, my swordmasters killed all the ironguts before attacks numbering 9 wounds on the dot, and the bruisers put down 5 onto my unit of 7, making them run and cutting down both heroes with my unit of swords who later died to some bulls later because 2 isnt enough to kill enoguh bullmeat
The unit of swords that got killed got charged by a unit of ironguts with two heroes in them, my swordmasters killed all the ironguts before attacks numbering 9 wounds on the dot, and the bruisers put down 5 onto my unit of 7, making them run and cutting down both heroes with my unit of swords who later died to some bulls later because 2 isnt enough to kill enoguh bullmeat
Hey, does this cloth smell like chloroform?