The use of nullstone

[Wicksi]

I've been watching this item quite alot and thought "hmm that cant really be worth it" but then I started to wonder. Magical armour that loose there effect that isnt stated as "heavy armour." or something like that does that become clothing? take dragon armour of aenarion it just says he now has 2+ save and cant be hurt by fire.

Would the nullstone make him completly stripped of armour and be able to take damage from fire? any suggestions ?

[Aethyr]

Actually just had a similar discussion, destroyed a item with vauls unmaking, an armor to be precise, but it didn't say counts as heavy/light etc so we decided it doesn't exist anymore.

On a bird of the same feather, korhils axe doesn't state it's a great weapon, so does he retain his +2 while karted?

[Flame of the Asuryan]

Dragon armour of caledor becomes normal dragon armour when using Nullstone.

Your answer is No. Nullstone just neutralizes its magical effect.

[Wicksi]

okej dragon armour of aenarion was a bad example but armour that doesnt say "count as xx armour" do they simply cease to effekt? Like Aethyr said.

and regarding korhill I think he looses the 2str also but on the other hand he does have a hand weapon in his profile also if I aint mistaken so he should get an extra attack atleast if its destroyed

[NoOoDLe]

Actually. Unless the piece of armour specifies what kind of armour it actually is.. As in, does the description of rules specify wether it counts as a suit of Light, Heavy, Dragon, Gromril or Full Plate armour. It should completely rid the armour of all its effects, including the armour save. In essence it just became heavy clothing.

This is the R.A.W. version of jinxed armour.

The R.A.I.D.E.N. (Rules As Intended Don't Effin Nitpick) version would more likely be that the Dragon Armour of Aenarion would become regular Dragon Armour. Even though it doesn't say it's Dragon armour in it's rules.

I prefer the latter.. Personally. Even if it favours my opponent at times. It's just silly otherwise. Just like having an Executioners Axe being degraded to a mundane hand weapon or the White Sword being a mundane hand weapon.

[Aethyr]

But great weapons become +1 strength when mounted, Chayel does not mention being a great weapon, thus he should maintain the +2.

[Wicksi]

AHA thought you ment when you destroyed his axe well I would play it as he gets 2+ even on a chariot dont think its suppose to work as a great weapon at all (yet I could be wrong)

another thought occured to me if you facing high elves vs high elves and lets say 2lords are 5inches from eachother both with nullstones. how do they react to the others and suroundings ? teknikly they should shut eachother out but if one of them shuts the otheron down thatone shouldnt beable to shut the first one down and so on.

in any case what if there is a magic banner in 5inches of one of the lords but is not in range of the other nullstone does that banner still work since the other nullstone is in range of that nullstone thus makes it worthless?

[Musashi]

IIRC Grimgor Ironhide's armour evaporates, either temporarily, or permanently (Vaul being unhappy).

[Aethyr]

You knew exactly who i was talking about Musashi!

[Musashi]

Actually, it happened to me, Grimgor got too close to Teclis, so I cast it on him and sicced Caradryan in his direction; I was very surprised when the O&G player informed me that he didn't have any armour save. Having already been the recipient of a shot from an RBT, Caradryan managed to finish him off on his own.

Or it was Tyrion and no RBT.

[WarpPhoenix]

AHA thought you ment when you destroyed his axe well I would play it as he gets 2+ even on a chariot dont think its suppose to work as a great weapon at all (yet I could be wrong)

another thought occured to me if you facing high elves vs high elves and lets say 2lords are 5inches from eachother both with nullstones. how do they react to the others and suroundings ? teknikly they should shut eachother out but if one of them shuts the otheron down thatone shouldnt beable to shut the first one down and so on.

in any case what if there is a magic banner in 5inches of one of the lords but is not in range of the other nullstone does that banner still work since the other nullstone is in range of that nullstone thus makes it worthless?

Black hole, world implodes, paradox created etc etc.

[Prince_Asuryan]

I'm not sure if there is a debate about this, but if there is, there shouldn't be.


The rules are very clear.

Null Stone - 'All items loose magical properties. Treat them as mundane items of the appropriate type.'


Thus:
The Dragon Armour of Aenarion becomes Dragon Armour - 'The DDoA follows the normal rules for Dragon Armour'
Chayal becomes a Hand weapon, cos that's what it is. It doesn't have the great weapon rule or anything else. However, Korhil gains +1 attack for an additional hand weapon.


While on the subject of Chayal. When on a chariot, he gains +2 strength, that's it's rules. It doesn't matter if it's LIKE a GW, it's not a GW.

[Wicksi]

I've been thinking even more about nullstone, what do people think about a prince on a barded steed lance shield with a nullstone. against some races I think that would be quite awesome against some armies.

Consider this high elves have pretty nice sats compared to quite alot of other races and he is built to be as awesome as he can without any magic items he would probably be able to beat any other lord from races like Dark elves, Empire, Brets, other high elves and probably more lords. He would also make you able to know exacktly what you are up against when you charge a unit (except assasins and fanatics) since there magic standards and such wont work.

It might not be the MOST competative build ever made but I think it would be really fun to play and not worthless at all. imagine the look on someones face when you charge your swordmasters and dragon princes into a unit of ASF black guards imagine the look on his face when you say "oh by the way your banner" anyone tried this ? (never played a 2k game with my high elves yet so I obviously hvent tried it myself )

[Musashi]

Nullstone is a gimmick that shouldn't be used more than every fourth or fifth game.

[yellowcommissar]

I regularly use the Null Stone. I use a Prince on Star Dragon with dragon armour, shield, lance, and Null Stone. I find it keeps my opponents honest with thier fancy magic items. It has worked great against Chaos with that awful stubborn banner. Works wonders against special characters too. I charged that foo foo chaos lord of slaanash. Null Stone shut down all of his magic items including his armour and ward saves.

I bring it every few games, and I bring it against every opponent I play, just to give them something to think about when they are writing an army list to play me.

[WarpPhoenix]

Problem is that the most awesome abilities out there are not magical items and thus cant be stopped, you may be having fun against orcs and goblins for a couple weeks then WHAM, you fight daemons and you cant stop ANY of their "items" because they're not magical items, they're gifts, BLAM you fight vampires and Red Fury punches a hole through your prince because its a vamp power, not a magical item, ogres will keep their +1 toughness, etc etc. Im not saying it should, but these are just the drawback of it.

[Flame of the Asuryan]

Well, it is funny against Dark Elves though, whose lords and relies heavily rely on their cheap-ass weapons and armour.

The most funny unit is a unit of 17 Swordies with full command and prince with the Stone .

[SpellArcher]

Null Stone Prince needs to watch out for Assassins.

[Nyyman]

I was just about to say "But Gifts of Khaine are magical, they don't work", but then I checked the DE book, and look! They are not considered as magical items of any kind (expect for Venom Sword and Twilight Cloack).
So yeah, Assasin with Touch of Death and Rune of Khaine would beat Prince really hard

[Aethyr]

With assassins it's all about striking first, and striking hard right? That or super defensive gear and snuffing them like that?

[SpellArcher]

Presumably the best save the Prince is likely to have is 2+, if he's mounted. Vambraced Princes are good if the Assassin lacks KB but then no Nullstone of course.

The Prince doesn't have to be in contact, only within 6". Some flying sneakiness etc.. might be possible.

[Lord Aenarion]

I played against DE last week, and tried out the nullstone on a prince mounted on a SD. It worked really well He had a unit with 14 black guard with banner og hag graef and a supreme sorceress in it first thing I did was to fly within 6 inches of the sorceress so she couldn't cast spells, the next round I charged with my dragon princes and the SD, wiping them out in one go

But you really have to be careful where you place your prince. he can't take much shooting and magic. I got shot at a couple of times by RXBs, but they only hit my prince twice, and failed to wound.

next time I'm playing DE, I'm gonna try him out in a unit of swordmasters, pretty sure that works better The only thing that concerns me are those damned assassins!!

[Prince_Asuryan]

Presumably the best save the Prince is likely to have is 2+, if he's mounted. Vambraced Princes are good if the Assassin lacks KB but then no Nullstone of course.

He can pull of a 1+ re-roll with a ward save, and still leaves him with 35pts for a sword of might or the Talisman of Saphery. Uber-defensive

[Stormie]

I have a game coming this week using pure Goblins vs High Elves lead by a Prince on Griffon with Nullstone. Not particularly worried about it, just means the guy on top has nothing else worthwhile and a poor armour save...

[SpellArcher]

PA I meant what Stormie's saying about the Nullstone Prince.