Spearelves V's Undead.

Discuss your tactics for the 7th Ed army book here, together with tactics for other races.

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StormGuard
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Spearelves V's Undead.

#1 Post by StormGuard »

Hi there.

I will be going up against undead armys soon and as a new player really want to use all the old metal and plastic Spear elves that I have collected over the long years, so I was wondering what size units to use against Undead.
I was thinking of 2x units of 25 Spears (full command), 5x ranks of 5, as that way I stand a better chance against Fear.
Or would 4 ranks of 6 be better.??????

Oh and due to the event resrtictions, I can't have any magic standards. :cry:

SG.
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Silver
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Re: Spearelves V's Undead.

#2 Post by Silver »

Hm, no anti-fear or war banner huh? that kinda sucks O:

Anyway, 2x 25 spears should be perfect - you'll be able to sustain a few casualties be it by magic or from a combat character and still be able to dish out damage to those undeads, be they ghouls or skellies, with 3 ranks of attacks you should be fine and keep your static CR at +3 Ranks longer than with blocks of 20 of course (:

So definitely 5x5
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tiekwando2
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Re: Spearelves V's Undead.

#3 Post by tiekwando2 »

just for the sake of argument, what about 6x4, you get 3 additional attacks, which actually have a chance of causing a wound against the undead shambling hordes. Limited (none) shooting and limited (almost none) magic missiles (they will raise troops and vanhels probably) will mean that they will arrive with their 3 ranks and you have to loose 2 to loose the CR bonus, on the other hand you can run 25 (6x4+1) and then need to loose 3. Just a thought. Not actually sure which is better.
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StormGuard
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Re: Spearelves V's Undead.

#4 Post by StormGuard »

tiekwando2 wrote:on the other hand you can run 25 (6x4+1) and then need to loose 3. Just a thought. Not actually sure which is better.
This is also something that I was thinking of doing, as its a right pain in the a** to reduce each unit by 1.
Anyway, so the general consesus so far is that 5x Ranks of 5, or 4 Ranks of 6 with +1 left over, are about equal in gaming ability, is this right.????

Sorry to ask this, but the correct Rank depth is quite an important thing for me to work out as I've not used High Elves for many many years and want to make sure that I get it right.

Thanks.
SG.
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Re: Spearelves V's Undead.

#5 Post by Silver »

25 in a 6x4 formation needs to lose 3 spearelves to go from +3 Rank bonus to +2
25 in 5x5 formation needs to lose 7 spearelves to go from +3 rank bonus to +2

3 Extra WS4 S3 attacks usually won't matter.
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Re: Spearelves V's Undead.

#6 Post by dabber »

The primary purpose of spears is rank bonus, not attacks. Using spears to hurt the enemy, except against the absolute weakest targets possible (T3, zero armour) is a bad idea. If you want to kill the enemy, take Swordmasters.
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Re: Spearelves V's Undead.

#7 Post by WarpPhoenix »

zombies are T2 no armour :wink:
Hey, does this cloth smell like chloroform?
tiekwando2
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Re: Spearelves V's Undead.

#8 Post by tiekwando2 »

25 in a 5x5 need only loose 6. You need a back rank of 5, so 4x6+1 needs to loose 3. Not a big deal but like i said its a matter of they cant kill many from range and if they are, then they aren't raising any

15 attacks agaist ghouls (cause thats what you will be fighting) causes 3.33 wounds, they return with .6667 wounds

18 attacks kill 4 ghouls, they return causing .3333 wounds. Its normally going to be a +1 CR swing, and quite possibly +2 CR (and no dead elves).

Against zombies that they raise its 6.66 against 8, against skeletons its 2.5 wounds against 3 wounds (attacks back are nothing really) but you really wont see these guys.

Thats why i would only suggest it against VC, because they do have some of the weakest troops in the game, ghouls are ws3, t4 no save, but have 2 attacks back, zombies are ws1, t2, skeletons are ws1 t3 4+ save.

:)
Minsc
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Re: Spearelves V's Undead.

#9 Post by Minsc »

21+ Spears, deployed 7 wide make for excellent zombiekillers, doing on average 10 wounds / turn to the zombies. Lion Standard or Banner of Balance is vital though.
(worth mentioning - 14 Swordmasters, deployed 7 wide kill less zombies than 21 spearelves, deployed 7 wide. 9.77 kills for the spears vs 8,33 kills for the swordmasters.)

Vs Ghouls, the Swordmasters are slightly better than the spears (Spears: 4,98 vs SM:6,66), vs Skeletons, the Swordmasters really outperform the spears though. (SM: 6,94 - Spears: 3,66). Spears will have higher static cr though.
ws1 t3 4+ save
Skeletons are ws2 mind you.
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Re: Spearelves V's Undead.

#10 Post by Silver »

Just be careful when they're suddenly WS6/7 (;
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Re: Spearelves V's Undead.

#11 Post by StormGuard »

Just wanted to say thanks for all the replys, its really helped and after due consideration, I have decided to go with 5x Ranks of 5 with full command, as it gives me my Rank bonus for longer, which against undead seems to be very important.

Thanks again.
SG.
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