how best to use the stardragon

[Lord Anathir]

I dont know, the lvl4 on foot still seems to me like the more reasonable option. Even more so because he lends his ld9 to the core of the army instead of flying around. And the storm banner too. Maybe on unbarded steeds? But I like putting them in forests too. I'm not sure.

[Lord Anathir]

btw daydream congratz on your best general at the alamo gt. (even though you took daemons it was at least monogod)

[Daydream]

@Lord Anathir - Thanks! After playing defensive High Elves for a while I figured I'd swap play styles. Daemons are still cheesy, but I think that I played them differently than most which was my goal. I plan to continue to swap between the High Elves and Daemons so they both seem "fresh" to me.

@geoguswrek - I think you are a bit off in your points about the star lance/talisman combo being a waste. I've found that the biggest theat to the star dragon is one round of fluffed dice rolls. The variance on the dragon is staggering. All of the army matchups that you posted are much different when you put the star lance on the prince. For example:

Lizardmen: Most people don't take beasts against me anymore since the rest of the lore besides cowers is terrible and I have two scolls. If they do, I scroll cowers twice and throw 3 dice the rest of the time which usually means 3 turns of movement. The star lance/talisman combo reliably kills a steg on the charge and then overruns out of harms way giving the opponent the choice of turning to attack the dragon or continuing forward to fight the rest of the army.

Hydras: Similar to the Stegadon, but easier to kill with RBTs. I usually find that the dragon is best used killing warmachines and breathing on black guard.

Stank: Have you seen the star lance/talisman take on a stank. It is pretty much a free 300 points. Do 4-5 wounds on the charge and then kill it in the next few rounds. It can't grind you because it has taken too many wounds.

VC: Beating VC is all about killing the rares and the Star Dragon isn't a bad option. Sure you have to avoid the big blocks of infantry, but with a 20 inch fly move that isn't too tough.

Treeman: I agree you can't charge the ancient, but the rest of the army is fair game. Wood elves can't avoid the dragon and can't kill it either, so killing the treeman is almost irrelevant.

Abominations: I haven't seen the new skaven book so I can't really comment yet.

Dragons: Doubtful you'll be able to charge them, but they should fear your RBTs. The combination of threats of the star dragon and RBTs should allow you to contain the opposing dragon.

Hellcannons: The dragon is safe in HtH and should be fighting knights where the star lance excels.

Lord Anathir's points about being a VP denial tool make sense once you use it as a breakthrough device to get behind your enemy's lines. The rest of the high elf army can play defensively and shoot/defend the RBTs which are really the teeth of the list. After that the Dragon threatens the enemies' rear which produces too many threats for them to deal with.

It doesn't always work, but I've had good success with it. Hope this explination helps.

[geoguswrek]

LA: you don't often fly far away from the rest of the army, so he gives leadership 9 about quite a bit. (i've also designed my army around the idea of not needing a general).

Daydream: if you take the starlance on the dragon, then the guy on top becomes fair game for both shoting and decent combat units, thats what always worried me about this combo. Problem is that as soon as i realise you don't have vambraces (this will be very likely when you say you have a lance, since most defensive set ups use a halberd/great weapon) surely people just start shooting it with everything, and the guy ontop will die relatively easily (it's like killing 4 dragon princes)

[SpellArcher]

I use the same philosophy with my Lord in chariot Geo. He doesn't stray that far because he's not a free-hunting Dragon guy, so the leadership radiates very usefully. Infantry blocks also built to function without him if necessary. In your list it's the Swordmasters which would miss him I think, except you've got Balance and Loec. Archers maybe but that's only a worry if you're bunkering your Mage there?

[geoguswrek]

mostly its the bolt throwers that miss him. when a bolt thrower fials a terror test, you lose the chance to single bolt whatever causes the terror, you also lose 2 turns of firing even if you do remove the terror causer.
Balance means the swords generally don't care about ld9, if they lsoe combat they tend to lose by lots (because if they haven't done enough wounds to win combat, whatever they are in combat with will slaughter them), so the bsb is often better than ld 9 anyway, so that leaves the archers, who rarely, bodyguard a wizard so you don't care too much if they do panic/terror.

People assume a flying move means he MUST fly away from evverything else, it actually means he MAY fly awy from everything else. Big difference.

[SpellArcher]

I've had Dragon players tell me one of the problems is being tempted to fly 20" and kill something when you're better off staying close.

[geoguswrek]

it can be a bad idea to run off with a dragon, it often isn't though.

[chris_havoc]

OK! Questions being new to High Elves and having read this thread: Can Princes on top of the dragon not also be combative and defensive with a combo like Vambraces, Armour of Caledor, Talisman of Loec with a regular lance? Or even Amulet of Light in stead of the Talisman of Loec? I've been debating with myself whether or not it is worth dropping my Phoenix Guard's musician for a lance on my dragon with the Amulet of Light setup. I've yet to have a game to play test either way but it seems as though it doesn't have to be as black and white as it seems in this thread. Though I am leaning toward keeping the musician because it seems stupid to play the phoenix guard the way I am without one. I'd just like to hear opinions on it.

EDIT: Was also wondering if the biggest threat to a Star Dragon is a strong magic phase, would it not be worth supplementing the thing with two mages, one with a scroll, the other with sigil of asuryan spamming drain magic?

[Musashi]

Your opponent needs to have his spell-casters in range of the Dragon, which if Blitzing, might not be that great of an idea, since they may end up as dessert.

[SpellArcher]

Which is why the main threat is table-wide Beast Cowers. If the enemy doesn't have it you have fewer problems. If you're going to run 2 Mages, you might as well go Seerstaff, Scroll and Silver Wand, 2 Scrolls, so you get an offensive phase as well as defending the Dragon.

Amulet of Light is just another way to play it. Lance is viable but halberd generally preferred because it's better in subsequent rounds. The Star Dragon is so powerful it can grind things. Lighter mounts often need to win in one round, so it makes more sense to give their riders a lance.

[geoguswrek]

Even if casting spells at a dragon (and i mean range + los spells) i generally can keep my wizards out of charge arc of the dragon... i sometimes sacrifice one to something else, but not to the dragon.

[eudaimon]

I am a big believer in the Star Dragon. I just came back from the Australian MiniMe tournament (side event to the Australian masters) and scored 5 wins out of 6 and came 12th. My only loss was mitigated by the Star Dragon being the only thing that could rip into the vamps I lost to.

I kitted out my Prince in the typical tank style, 2+ re-roll, 4+ ward, halberd, amulet of light.

The problem with my style of play (generally quite defensive, using the Dragon to control zones of the battlefield, and get into combat turn 4 or so) is that its easy to win, but not to win big.

I have decided that what I need to do is support it with WLs carrying the lion standard, gem of courage and if possible also with a BSB (with the gem of hoeth to generate a DD, and another scroll caddy). March the WLs right up against your opponents best unit and hope to hold for two turns. Then put the Star Dragon in the flank and watch them crumble. Course, that sounds very easy, and I am sure it won't pan out like that....

[SpellArcher]

I'd be looking to keep the BSB in another block but can you afford that block in a Star Dragon army? With all the GW attacks he may be Ok but enemy basing the Lions will target him with extreme prejudice.