Tooling up Mages

Discuss your tactics for the 7th Ed army book here, together with tactics for other races.

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Spectre1
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Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2008 2:17 am

Tooling up Mages

#1 Post by Spectre1 »

Hi everyone,

I am preparing for a tourney that will be held first week-end of May and I have been testing my list against many different armies in the last few days.

I have been running a list with a Lvl 4 and Lvl 2 mage. The Archmage is equiped with Annulian Crystal, Ring of Fury, and DS, while the Mage as a DS, and the Seerstaff.

I have really been wondering if it might not be worth it putting the Seer on the Archmage instead of the mage. I faced VC yesterday night and Pit of Shades would have really come in handy but its a little hard to get out with 3PD.

So, what would be the best way to equip my two mages so I have better chances casting and dispeling, which as been pretty succesful against the VS with a Drain Magic.

If you wanted to take a look at the list it is here.
http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=28988
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7/14/8
L.Phantom
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#2 Post by L.Phantom »

I'm also running a LVL 4 and a LVL 2. The LVL 4 with the silver wand, ring of fury and a DS and the LVL 2 with a DS and the seerstaff.

I use the silver wand on the LVL 4 because he will know 5 spells and most of the time you will have the fat spell of the lore you choose.

I only use the seerstaff on my LVL 2 for one reason -Beast cower-, so if you want to use the seerstaff on a LVL 2 to get fat spells you should take an energy stone (+2 PD 1 use) instead of the DS.

But you should know that LVL 4 should be taking the fat spells and the LVL 2 +8/+9 max difficulty spells IMO.

Hope you can understand my poooor english (I'm spanish). Regards :roll: .
langbaobao
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#3 Post by langbaobao »

Agreeed, L.Phantom's build closely resembles what most consider the best lvl4+lvl2 mage builds.

The lvl4 takes on the Silver Wand so he's got a good chance of getting the spells you need since he'll know 5 of the 6 spells in a lore. There is always a chance that you will not get the exact spell you want but the risk is greatly reduced and usually people don't choose a lore solely to get one particular spell but rather 2-3 of the spells you need. This is the best combination for a general purpose tournament list. If you're going to play a specific enemy you can always switch to Seerstaff for the lvl4. But as you will see, the Seerstaff is usually better on the lvl2 since he cannot use the Silver Wand to the same effect. Besides, the Silver Wand is cheep at only 10 pts so it allows the lvl4 to take up other important stuff like the rings and scrolls. A lvl4 tooled in this way is also the base of the single archmage lists.
The lvl2 on the other hand needs the Seerstaff to be able to get the spells he needs reliably. The lvl2 with Seerstaff is used to select those highly specific 2-3 dice spells like Beast Cowers and so on that are used against specific armies and models. you will also have enough points to take a scroll which will boost your magical defense and freeing some space on the lvl4 for more important stuff.

So the point is to use the lvl4 as your main general-purpose casting platform, with a lore that has 2-3 or more spells which are useful against your opponent while the lvl2 is used to select those army specific spells that you need to stop particular aspects of your opponent's army like dragons, chariots and so on.
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dabber
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#4 Post by dabber »

I think Seer on an Archmage is required. I do not agree with Seer on a level 2 and I do not think Silver Wand on an Archmage is safe enough. I'm happy giving the level 2 Silver Wand and figuring that will usually get him a second useful spell. However, when the level 2 doesn't get a second useful spell, he can cast his default all game long and not be overly wasteful. The Archmage needs a variety of good spells to be worth his huge cost. Your game demonstrates this well. If the little Mage had cast nothing but Drain Magic all game, against most VC armies he would be plenty useful.

Additionally, I would never take Shadow on a level 2 for the reason you cite. The only spells that matter are Pit and Lurker, but getting those off with 3 dice is chancy. Why would you want Pit against VC anyway?
Spectre1
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#5 Post by Spectre1 »

Why would you want Pit against VC anyway?
Well I really wanted to see what it would do against VC (or a low Ini army for that matter) before my up coming tournment.

I felt PoS would be a good way for dealing with the Wraith and Banshee unit that went through my army like a hot great weapon in butter.
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7/14/8
dabber
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#6 Post by dabber »

Spectre1 wrote:I felt PoS would be a good way for dealing with the Wraith and Banshee unit that went through my army like a hot great weapon in butter.
Unless your opponent is not paying attention, you would hit about 2 wraiths with each cast.
garythewargamer
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comment

#7 Post by garythewargamer »

These units are why I like the amulet of light with a swordmaster's champion.
There are a lot of pros and cons about the silverwand and seerstaff. Bottom line the choice is yours. Most spells can be casted with three die, not all the time but nearly. Drain magic is very potent against the undead. Now their heal spell goes to two die vice one.
Foxbat
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#8 Post by Foxbat »

Based on the multitude of games I have played against VC , my advice is to take more dispel scrolls and stick to the High lore. Against VC, you will not be able to out magic them, so you really need to go defensive. I realize that selection of several other lores are tempting (shadow, metal, and light pop to mind), however, they all lack the every model in the unit damage potential of the FoP and ability to identify and destroy magic items of Vaul’s Unmaking.

As an example, recently, I have been using twin 2nd level mages (total of 4 dispel scrolls and silver wand) for my 2250 point lists. In a recent game against a VC (he had at least three casters) I used High lore on both of my casters. Being able to cast DM twice per magic round proved pivotal in this game. In each of his magic phases I used my scrolls only to stop the dance and DD for bound items and damage spells (Curse of Years, etc). By the end of turn 3, he was out of dispel scrolls and my DM took hold easily. In turn 5, his need to throw more dice finally caught up with him as he rolled a miscast, which allowed me to freely cast FoP on his main unit (this proved devastating as it hit in his magic phase and then mine on turn 5). As for the game outcome, I massacred him.

As for the seerstaff and silver wand placement, given the number of VC and other annoying lists that you will see in a tourney, I am currently leaning toward putting the seerstaff on the 4th level (this ensures you get those two all important metal spells when playing against an anvil toting dwarf or 4 Chaos Knight list) and the silver wand on the 2nd level (nothing better than having two commandment of brass spells for that for mentioned dwarf).
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Kiwi
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#9 Post by Kiwi »

I like running the Lvl 4 Lvl 2 combo and put the Seerstaff (if I take it) with the Lvl 4. Silver Wand is good on the Lvl 2 as i see his main role to be drawing out the enemies dispel dice and scrolls b4 the lvl 4 gets stuck in with the good stuff.

Never thought about silver wand on the lvl 4 though, would be an interesting choice.
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Lord Athalaon
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#10 Post by Lord Athalaon »

My current set up is

Archmage, Level 4, Ring of Fury, Silver Wand, 2 Dispel Scrolls
Mage, Level 2, Seerstaff of Saphery, Powerstone.

With a banner of sorcery floating around somewhere, usually on swordmasters for fluffyness.

Gives me a good overall chance of getting the spells I want and the powerstone gives the level 2 the chance to bash through a big spell whens its crucial, like Unseen Lurker, Pit of Shades or Spirt of the Forge. Even just using it to spring Beast Cowers is good.

Picking a more mundane spell he can do on his 2 dice, keeping the powerstone in reserve works well. Espically since as you see so many people go with a scroll on him. People seem to exspect powerstones from VC but not from High Elves.


Against VC is particular, frankily most of my effort would be in to casting Drain Magic, Flames of the Phoenix and Vauls on things like the 'Book of Always Taking.' Of course the 3rd dispel scroll would probably be more helpful in this situation but the above is my all comers norm.

For VC in particular I'd consider a lvl 3 archmage with annulian crystal and 3 scrolls. Save points by not getting the lvl 2 altogether and plowing his points in to getting more chaps on the table. A Lion Chariot for example would be particularly helpful.
Calador
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#11 Post by Calador »

Alternatively, can try

lvl4 with seer + RoF + DS/PS
lvl2 with wand that gives +1 PD (sorry cannot remember the name) + DS

lvl2 has 3 PD to cast his spell and given his limitation in selecting useful spells, his lore of choice should revolve around the usefulness of the 1st spell of each lore. He could 1) spam drain magic, 2) snipe enemy character, 3) cast lore of light magic missiles that cause D6 str 6 against undead or 4) 5+ wave save. Whatever the 2nd spell selection is, we will view it as a bonus and just something extra for him to cast with.

The key thing is that he is going to be self-sufficient with his spell casting and all the power die in the commom pool can go to the lvl 4 to cast all the nasty big spells.
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