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3000pts Grudge match vs. Dwarfs
http://ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=32219
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Author:  Kiwi [ Thu Jun 10, 2010 1:26 am ]
Post subject:  3000pts Grudge match vs. Dwarfs

5th and final game of series against a friends Dwarf army. Currently tied 2-2 he always takes Rangers and a Gyrocopter and I expect him to have a Lord on Shieldbearers, Runelord with Anvil, big unit of Miners, Slayers and a lot of Warmachines - min 2 BT, ST and Organ Gun.

Briefly considered taking the Prince/Star Dragon combo but dont really like it and I dont have the model. Dragon Mage also considered but went with extra Lvl 4 instead. Any feedback would be appreciated. Army selection limited as usual by availability of models and my unwillingness to proxy anything. No special characters allowed.

Archmage Lvl 4 (General)
- Staff of Solidity, Folraiths
Archmage Lvl 4
- Jewel of Dusk, Sacred Incense, Pendant of Vengeance
Noble
- Armour of Caledor, GW, Guardian Phoenix
BSB
- Barded Steed, GW, Dragon Armour, Helm of Fortune, Talisman of Protection
Spears x20
- Musician
Spears x20
- Musician
Archers x10
Archers x10
White Lions x12
- FC, Banner of Sorcery
Phoenix Guard x19
- FC, War Banner
Dragon Princes x5
Dragon Princes x5
Swordmasters x8
- Bladelord
Eagle
Eagle
RBT
RBT
RBT

TOTAL 3,000 PD 11+D3

Basic idea is for General to camp with White Lions. Noble on foot and other Archmage go with PG and BSB with one of the units of DP's. I have a lot of shooting so can compete there. PG in middle of 2 spear units, DP's and eagles on one flank and WL bunkering somewhere.

Author:  KlapHesten [ Thu Jun 10, 2010 9:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 3000pts Grudge match vs. Dwarfs

What about a unit of Shadow Warriors and give the Noble Shadow Armour + great weapon, or Foe Bane and go for the warmachine itself :) ?
Iv had some success with this :)

Author:  Foxbat [ Thu Jun 10, 2010 12:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 3000pts Grudge match vs. Dwarfs

Kiwi wrote:
BSB
- Barded Steed, GW, Dragon Armour, Helm of Fortune, Talisman of Protection

Your BSB looks odd. Not sure why you gave him a Great Weapon. I would look at equipping him with halberd if you don’t want a shield (saves points). I have had a lot of luck using the Golden Shield plus (i) Sword of Might or (ii) Talisman of Loec. However, as this is your BSB, I would likely go with the Sword of Might as the ToL approach tends to be better reserved for a regular noble on a steed.

Author:  dabber [ Thu Jun 10, 2010 12:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 3000pts Grudge match vs. Dwarfs

Kiwi wrote:
Archmage Lvl 4 (General)
- Staff of Solidity, Folraiths
Archmage Lvl 4
- Jewel of Dusk, Sacred Incense, Pendant of Vengeance
I cannot imagine taking one Archmage without improved spell selection, and two is beyond crazy. Seer and/or Silver Wand is a lot more valuable than one extra power dice and the Staff of Solidity. Staff is particularly wacky, since your odds of miscasting are equal on both Mages, so half the time it will do nothing. At the same time, you've left out the best magic phase boosting item we have - the Ring of Fury. If you really don't want Seer/Wand, my next choice would absolutely be the Ring of Corin. Melt the Dwarf Lord's 80+ point armour or weapon and suddenly he isn't such a big deal.

Your BSB makes no sense. The purpose of the Helm of Fortune is to ensure he stays alive, particularly in combat with a Dwarf fighting character. But you left off the shield, so his survivability is not as good. Leave him with a lance and treat him like a tank. Probably even more the Guardian Phoenix to him, since his job is to engage a Dwarf fighter.

You mention model limitations, but I still see no reason for the extra core unit. Archers are just so terrible against Dwarfs, and spears are barely better. Spend points on another character instead.

I think the Swordmasters are too small to have a hope of surviving. I would get them to at least 14 with Standard of Balance and Talisman of Loec. Certainly I love the Talisman on a Swordmaster champion.

Author:  Eltherion [ Thu Jun 10, 2010 8:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 3000pts Grudge match vs. Dwarfs

BSB decked as a DP with Battle Banner then have a unit champ with helm of Fortune in the unit for challenges.

I second Dabbers changes to the Mage set ups.

Take Lore of Metal on the Mages to burn through the Dwarf armour.

Author:  Bolt Thrower [ Thu Jun 10, 2010 8:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 3000pts Grudge match vs. Dwarfs

I agree with everything Dabber posted. The extra core most likely isn't worth it. Maybe drop those archers for some shadow warriors to help in the war machine hunt. Or pick up another eagle and try to boost those sword masters some.

The unit of 14 SM, Full Command with standard of balance, talisman of loec is one of my favorite units. Against dwarves you have to hold them back until you can disable the organ gun(s) and thunderers. Otherwise they will be target numero uno most likely.

Putting your knights and eagles all on one flank could work. Just go full throttle to the nearest machine and try to get behind his lines. That's why the extra eagle may come in handy as you're bound to lose 1-2 along the way and I find that just one eagle is not enough to beat the crew.

Author:  Kiwi [ Sun Jun 13, 2010 11:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 3000pts Grudge match vs. Dwarfs

Ok guys thanks for tips... Im surprised im struggling with this as my other army, and the one I play the most, is Dwarfs.

Modified list is

Archmage Lvl 4 (w WL)
- Silver Wand, Folraiths
Archmage Lvl 4 (w PG)
- Seerstaff, Ring of Fury
BSB (with DP's)
- Barded Steed, Shield, Halberd, Helm of Fortune, Guardian Phoenix
Noble (with Shadow Warriors)
- Shadow Armour, Longbow, Shield, GW
Noble (with PG)
- Armour of Caledor, GW, Talisman of Protection
Spears x19
- Musician
Archers x10
Archers x10
White Lions x15
- FC, Banner of Sorcery
Phoenix Guard x18
- FC, War Banner
Swordmasters x12
- Bladelord, Musician
Dragon Princes x7
Shadow Warriors x5
Eagle
Eagle
RBT
RBT
RBT

TOTAL 3,000 exactly

Or how about I completely ignore the magic phase and go with this

Prince
Star Dragon, Dragon Armour, Vambraces of Defence, Enchanted Shield, Cloak of Beards, Lance
Prince
Barded Steed, Dragon Armour, Shield, Reaver Bow, Helm of Fortune, Guardian Phoenix
BSB
Barded Steed, Dragon Armour, Dragonscale Shield, Sacred Incense, Halberd
Archers x10
Archers x10
Archers x10
Phoenix Guard x19
FC, War Banner
White Lions x15
FC
Swordmasters x16
Bladelord, Musician, Talisman of Loec
RBT
RBT
RBT
Eagle
Eagle

TOTAL 2,996pts

Author:  CrazyCarl [ Mon Jun 14, 2010 1:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 3000pts Grudge match vs. Dwarfs

At 3000 points I like playing a combat lord and an archmage. Usually a Prince on Star Dragon, but you could make a Tank type lord if you don't have a Dragon to put one on. I'll try to post a 3k list I've used in the past.

Author:  dabber [ Tue Jun 15, 2010 12:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 3000pts Grudge match vs. Dwarfs

In general, I see little reason to take magic when building a list specifically against Dwarfs. You know you don't need any defense, so make whatever points they spend on defense be purely wasted.

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