2250 list - One of my first. Anything truly terrible?
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Author:  Lhyon [ Mon May 24, 2010 8:02 am ]
Post subject:  2250 list - One of my first. Anything truly terrible?

Greetings, one and all! I've been collecting High Elves for what technically comes out to a fair while now, but until very recently, I haven't had anyone to play against.

Well, now one of my friends has dusted off his old models, and with significant amounts of proxying, has fought two battles against me.

The first time, he played Lizardmen at 1000 points, and I beat him soundly.

The next time, he played Dark Elves, and somehow managed to dredge up enough models to play Dark Elves at 2250 points. And, of course, he's taken a liking to 'em. He managed to beat me by about, oh 25 victory points or so... but due to both our inexperience, we misplayed a few rules.

Therefore, I need to fix up 2250 list to really show him what for. I've heard that a bit more of a shooting focus is certainly the way to go against the Druichi... But I'm not sure if this list here is quite what I'm aiming for. It also comes up a little bit over on points, but not high enough that it's likely to cause problems. That being said, I'd like it if I could drop a few points.



High Elf Prince
Halberd, Dragon Armor, Star Dragon
Vambraces of Defense, Reaver Bow
630 Points

High Elf Mage
Level 2
Seerstaff of Saphery
165 Points

High Elf Mage
Level 2
Dispell Scroll x2, Silver Wand
185 Points

10 Archers
110 Points

19 Spear Elves
Full Command
Lion Standard
226 Points

7 Swordmasters
105 Points

6 Dragon Princes
180 Points

19 Phoenix Guard
Full Command
315 Points

3 Repeater Bolt Throwers
300 Points

1 Giant Eagle
50 Points


One Mage in each of the big combat blocks, obviously.

If some of you would be so kind take the time to review this list, I would greatly appreciate it. I've got a concern or two of my own, but I'll wait and see what others think before voicing them.

Thank you very much!

Author:  Dreadlord Blooay [ Mon May 24, 2010 8:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2250 list - One of my first. Anything truly terrible?

Well, there is nothing TRULY terrible, but there could be some changes as well, (remember, it is only a could):
Your prince needs some serious armour save. Drop reaver bow, give him armour of caledor, that and the vambraces will keep him safe and sound. Also, the amulet is also nice, so you won't get stuck with etheral opponents.
This is more personal experience than real good advice, 21 spearmen, 7 wide, is great. 21 attacks can scare away A LOT of opponents from charging. Also, I trust my ld tests to go quite smoothly, lion standard is a blessing, warbanner can be too. All dependent on how much you trust the averages of dices.
19 phoenix guard, is, a lot. And they will lose out to, anything. Outnumbering and fear causing is of course, GREAT, but you will find their quite useless. Str 4 attacks will surprisingly be bad in front of 2 st 5 or 1 str 6 stubborn. Phoenix guard is only good to stabilize the banner of soccery, a banner you also could have great use of. Drop some guards to get that banner (if you really want to keep those guards), you will not be disappointed.

Author:  SpellArcher [ Mon May 24, 2010 9:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2250 list - One of my first. Anything truly terrible?

It's a good list, with some interesting picks.

Agree that Banner of Sorcery is necessary. I'd be tempted to drop a repeater for another eagle and stick Sorcery on the PG as suggested. Reaver Bow is a left-field pick but not awful, you have slack to try this out I think.

Somehow I think you need to strengthen your blocks. I'd up them both to 20, as your mages don't want to be in those blocks on contacting the enemy. I'd also try to find the points for Gem of Courage on the PG. Maybe you could drop a Dragon Prince.

Ok after a quick bit of adding up, I'd drop a DP and a musician to up the Spears to 20 and put the Gem on the PG. Can't see an obvious way to get another PG in there, except maybe drop another musician and Spear champ.

Author:  dabber [ Mon May 24, 2010 1:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2250 list - One of my first. Anything truly terrible?

The armour save on the Prince is not good enough to justify Vambraces. At minimum he needs a shield now, but I would prefer Helm of Fortune and Guardian Phoenix over Vambraces if you really want the Reaver Bow. You need to stop the volume of light DE shooting that will take down the Prince.

In general, two level 2 Mages is the worst magic phase you can have. It does not have enough offense to really hurt the enemy, and its defense is barely higher than a lone scroll caddy while costing significantly more. Two level 2s can work somewhat when backed by Banner of Sorcery and Ring of Fury, but then you start having to worry about the Ring of Hotek. I think magic offense against Dark Elves is a mistake, because of Hotek. Magic offense also means you don't have a BSB, which is often handy, even just as a fighting character.

If you don't take Banner of Sorcery, put war banner on the Phoenix Guard. While that won't defeat the Black Guard, it will beat a Hydra, and PG are the only thing that can survive in combat with Black Guard.

Spears are better against DE than against most opponents, but they still aren't good. I'd invest the extra 116 points elsewhere and stick with the standard 2x10 archers. On the other hand, playing 2x10 archers may look like you are playing "bring-the-pain", or something like that. Since DE pretty much beat everyone but Daemons (and often beat Daemons) when playing maximum power army lists, that may be a terrible idea.

Author:  Lhyon [ Mon May 24, 2010 3:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2250 list - One of my first. Anything truly terrible?

Hmmm. Good suggestions. Thank you, everyone...

Let's say I was to drop those Spear Elves in favor of 10 more archers. In addition to throwing in the Banner of Sorcery, what do you think I should try to work in? A chariot of some kind? Some Shadow Warriors or Reavers?

EDIT: Scratch this idea, with the acquisition of the Banner I don't have nearly enough points. I think I might throw a Bladelord and the ToL in the SM unit instead...

I must admit that I'm a bit nervous about fielding only one big combat unit against the Dark Elves, especially because I get the feeling that my friend might be fielding a bit more missile fire then is usual for DEs...

Author:  WarpPhoenix [ Mon May 24, 2010 4:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2250 list - One of my first. Anything truly terrible?

My advice is lose the phoenix guard ;p

Author:  Wicksi [ Tue May 25, 2010 10:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2250 list - One of my first. Anything truly terrible?

why all the nagging on phoenix guards ! my phoenix guards have ALWAYS preformed excelent *cough* excrept when charged from the flank by choosen knights with a lord on *cough* but the thing is they dont kill that super lots of guys but most of the time they kill more then you enemy do.

I'n my games they are the once doing the killing they usually are my main combat unit. It's not uncommon to se them win over 3big block of units like Choosens on foot or Black orcs or temple guards.

I remember once when I charged a orc unit in the ass he had more modells then me and passed his ld test round after he charged in a boar chariot and wolf riders in my unit (in the rear and the flank) and I still won combat because he didnt manage to kill enough of them and they all from me. was awesome ;) And I dare ANY other unit in our army book to manage something like that.

Author:  SpellArcher [ Tue May 25, 2010 11:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2250 list - One of my first. Anything truly terrible?

Wicksi wrote:
*cough* excrept when charged from the flank by choosen knights with a lord on *cough*

White Lions would have held!


Seriously though, PG are great too, it's all about playstyle IMHO.

Author:  Lhyon [ Tue May 25, 2010 6:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2250 list - One of my first. Anything truly terrible?

Okay. Well. Things have changed. My friend seems to have changed his mind, and so the horde of masquerading Necrons, Tyranids, Goblins, and Dwarves have now decided to become Chaos Warriors, likely toting obscene amounts of magic (Level 4 + 2 level 2s) and many heavy troops (few mauraders).
Which leads me to the matter of Character choice. I've been banned from fielding any special characters, which is a shame as I was seriously considering fielding both Teclis and Caradryan. I'm worried about the inherent risk of fielding a BoH Archmage in this environment, given that my opponent will likely have an Infernal Puppet. However, I think without the BoH my chances of getting those great Lore of Metal spells off are pretty darn low. Even if I don't take an Archmage, I think I'll need at least 2 mages, however... which would preclude me from taking a BSB (I have the feeling that a Banner of the World Dragon would be highly effective) if I took a Star Dragon prince.

Does anyone here with experience against WoC have any sage wisdom for character choice?

Author:  dabber [ Wed May 26, 2010 1:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2250 list - One of my first. Anything truly terrible?

Star Dragon beats WoC. You need a scroll caddy, or maybe two, but short of Gateway, WoC have really big problems handling a big flier.

Author:  Lhyon [ Wed May 26, 2010 11:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2250 list - One of my first. Anything truly terrible?

Okay. Well... here's what I plan to run against his Chaos. It may be a little bit over-the-top anti-magic... but what can I say, I'm scared of all the power dice he'll be throwing at me, and between the Black Tongue and the Infernal Puppet I don't think it's safe to respond in kind.

Dragon Armor, Shield, Lance, Star Dragon
Loremaster's Cloak, Bow of the Seafarer
638 pts

Noble (BSB)
Dragon Armor, Shield, Lance, Barded Steed
Banner of the World Dragon
198 Pts

Dispell Scroll x2
140 Pts

2x10 Archers
220 Pts

22 White Lions
Full Command
Lion Standard, The Skeinsilver
410 Pts

7 Swordmasters
Standard Bearer
Banner of Arcane Protection
140 Pts

5 Dragon Princes
150 Pts

3 Repeater Bolt Throwers
300 Pts

1 Giant Eagle
50 Pts

Highly unorthodox, I know... The Standard Bearer goes with the White Lions for a hard-hitting Stubborn unit that's immune to his really nasty magics. Arcane Protection on the SMs frees them from having to sulk around in the back for half the game, and gives his sorcs no good target to cast Treason of Tzeentch on (as well as protecting from the much-feared Gateway). The Skeinsilver, Bolt Throwers, and Bow of the Seafarer on the Prince are obviously there for maximum skewerage. My main concern with this army is the lack of models I'm putting on the table... though against Chaos, it's probably less of an issue then against most armies.


Author:  elothr_anar [ Tue Jun 15, 2010 12:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2250 list - One of my first. Anything truly terrible?

In my experiance the star lance and the vambraces on a star dragon is invaluble as is the banner of ellerion on 9 dragon princes joined with a bsb with the battle banner

just suggestions

Author:  Eltherion [ Thu Jun 17, 2010 6:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2250 list - One of my first. Anything truly terrible?

Star Dragon Prince can always use Armour of Caledor & Guardian Phoenix instead of Vambrances & you save 5 pts.

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