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 Post subject: 2000P tournament list
PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 2:47 pm 
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Location: Kiel, Germany
Hey guys,

I am new to this forum and want to ask you for feedback for an army list.
We are playing a 2000P tournament with only two restrictions: No special characters and wizards have to choose their lores before I know my opponent's army list (so actually we have to determine the lores before the tournament as we know our oppenents and their races).

Opponents will be: Tomb Kings, Vampires, Orks, High Elves, Skaven, Bretonia, Empire, Warriors of Chaos, Lizardmen

Here the list:

Archmage Lv 4
- Ring of Fury
- Silverwand
- 2 Dispel
350

Mage Lv 2
- Seerstaff
- Dispel
185

Noble BSB
- Dragon Armour
- Shield
- Starlance
- Great Eagle
208

2x10 Archers
220

7 Swordmasters, CH, SB
- Amulet of light
- Ellyrian Banner
159

5 Dragon princes, SB
- Banner of Sorcery
220

15 White Lions, Full command
- Gem of courage
- Standard of balance
304

3 RBT
300

1 Great Eagle
50


Total 1996 points.

What do you think? I am not sure of switching the lance for the reaver bow, but 3 RBT should get the job done, and I have a chariot killer.

Thanks for your comments. :)


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PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 2:57 pm 
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SM shouldn't have banner, they are too small.

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PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 2:59 pm 
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Not a bad list as far as I can see.

I think you're right about the shooting. I'd be a bit worried about the Lions in particular without the BSB but you can fly him near if you have to and you have the obligatory Gem of Courage. I too am not quite convinced by spending command points on the small Swordmasters, presumably it works for you?

The issue I have with the list is the lack of combat units. You only have three, I'd be looking for two more ideally. Partly I think this is due to taking the Mage at 2000pts (I'd be tempted to drop him). I'd also be inclined to swap one unit of Archers for Spears or maybe Sea Guard.

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PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 3:19 pm 
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@SpellArcher:

I want to hide the SM behind forests or the like and make a surprising flank charge through heavy terrain.


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PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 3:31 pm 
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I think a fixed lore for the entire tournament would drive me away from High Elf magic entirely. You want Metal vs Bret and WoC, but you don't want that against Skaven, TK, Orcs, etc. Or am I misunderstanding, and you get to change lores for each game, you just have to name what lore vs each book well in advance? Even still, I'd be worried about that. If you cannot react to the presence of heavy cavalry, dragons, etc, a lot of effectiveness goes away.


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PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 5:36 pm 
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I agree with Dabber that if you have to declare your lore and stick with it through the whole tournament it makes our magic less effective. If that's the case, I'd drop the mage and take another DP unit or chariot.

I'm not convinced on the eagle bsb. They can be susceptible to shooting with just a 4+ save on the noble and nothing on the bird. If you do go this way, find 10 points to give him the enchanted shield for the 3+ save.

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PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 6:38 pm 
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I can choose the magic lores for each opponent separately, I only have to declare the lore before the tourney starts (e.g. I say "High magic vs. Skaven, Metal vs. Brets and so on).
That is why I want the second mage for complementary spells, depending on what the AM rolls.

I am just reconsidering this BSB on eagle thing, maybe one on a barded steed might be more protected, still maneuverable enough to be where he has to, and I can join him to units of infantry.


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PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 7:05 pm 
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In that case, I think keeping the mage is good. You could put the BSB on a steed and change your rares to 2 RBT/2 Eagle and then maybe squeeze a chariot in for that extra unit for support punch.

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PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 7:12 pm 
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Thanks for the hint, I'll post my new list when finished.

Does anyone have experience with a Mage on a Tir Chariot? Makes him deny ranks when flanking...


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PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 7:28 pm 
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Lyannas wrote:
Does anyone have experience with a Mage on a Tir Chariot? Makes him deny ranks when flanking...


Great maneuverability. Slightly more susceptible to shooting, I believe, as hits would be randomized (1-5 hit chariot, 6's hit mage). However, he would get a 5+ save from the chariot. In combat he can be picked out and attacked.

The movement and ease of lining up for any line of sight spells makes up for that in my opinion thought.

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PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 7:37 pm 
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I did some configuration change, although I think the main purpose remains: flexibility.

AM lv 4
- 2 dispel
- RoF
- SW
350

Mage lv 2
- Seer
- Dispel
185

BSB
- Barded steed
- Lance
- Shield
- DA
- HoF
- GP
188

2x10 Archers
220

15 WL, full command
- GoC
- SoB
310

5 DP, SB
- BoS
220

Tir Chariot
85

6 SM
90

3 RBT
300

1 GE
50

- Good magic offense, decent magic defense
- Good shooting with 3 RBT and 20 Archers
- 1 redirecting unit (GE) - supported by lore of beasts by lv2 mage (e.g. Brets or WoC)
- SM as flank charge unit (need protection though, mainly terrain imo)
- DP as BoS carrier, still punch for flank charges
- Flexible BSB who can join either WL or DP and is hard to kill with repeatable 1+ armor and 5+ ward --> might face enemy heros in challenges
- Some extra punch and war machine protection with the chariot

I am still considering to take only 2 RBT and 2 GE, but I like the firepower of 3 RBT, which also make me more independent from the magic phase (in case of miscasts etc.).

Furthermore, putting the mage on the chariot is an option, thanks for your comment BoltThrower. I'll take it into consideration.


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PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2010 9:09 am 
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The Eagle BSB can work as Joe Sturge proved at the SCGT. Tricky to get right though. Obviously the tank BSB is a decent option.

I'd be a bit wary of enemy shooting as the list stands. Target it with your own I guess.

Are the mages going to sit back in the White Lions?

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PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2010 12:14 pm 
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SpellArcher wrote:
I'd be a bit wary of enemy shooting as the list stands. Target it with your own I guess.

Are the mages going to sit back in the White Lions?


Yes, enemy shooting will be target of my shooting and magic (depending on how much fast cav, flyers, or scouts he has).

Yes, the wizards shall be protected by the WL, also depending on enemy, or hide in forests etc.


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PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 6:23 pm 
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Now, as I know some more facts about my enemies, I present an updated list:

- We will play in three groups, 4 players each
- The allocation of players to the groups seems to be some kind of weird to me, but anyhow
- Fact is: I have a 78% chance to be in one group with (at least, might be more) Tomb Kings or WoC (I can meet VC and Lizards in the final round at earliest and if they make it to the next round)
- This led me to the decision to incorporate a Lion Chariot as it has more offensive punch than the Tir as well as its fear (and immunity to fear)
- I gave the Reaver Bow to my BSB and removed an RBT for another GE (RB reconciles the third RBT, the second GE can go for redirecting, mage hunting, warmachines, etc.)

Archmage Lv 4
- 2 dispel
- SW
- RoF
350

Mage Lv 2
- Seer
- Dispel (or Power stone, not sure yet)
185

BSB
- Barded steed
- DA
- ES
- Reaver Bow
- Lance
188

2x10 Archers
220

15 WL, CH, SB
- GoC
- SoB
304

5 DP, SB
- BoS
220

Lion Chariot
140

6 SM
90

2 RBT
200

2 GE
100

Total 1997


In fact, I like the list now, with the two GE, redirecting vs Brets or WoC or Empire can become the key issue of those battles. And having a chariot with fear and good CC skills makes me more confident to be successful.

Any comments yet?
I am grateful for any more feedback.


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PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 7:49 pm 
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I actually quite like the new list. I'd keep the 3rd scroll over the power stone on your mage. Since he's packing the seerstaff you can make sure you only select spells that you can reliably cast on 2 or 3 dice. I like power stones but more for a character who doesn't have spell selection.

I love lion chariots. I know they are quite a bit pricier than tiranocs but I think they make up for it with fear and a bit more staying power in combat.

If you meet with Lizards, ramming your DP's or Lion Chariot at the engine of the gods, focusing all attacks on the priest will result in a useless engine of the gods. The result is typically a lost combat from which you flee out of reach (3 dice vs. 2 dice).

I think the 2 RBT/2 Eagles will definitely do you well. Very flexible.

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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2010 6:28 am 
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Thanks for your feedback BoltThrower.

I also love Lion Chariots and I think they are absolutely worth their points.
My AM will definetely take shadow magic vs. lizards, maybe I am lucky and get some of the nasty saurus cavalry or temple guards with the PoS.
Good hint with EoG, I hate these big unns, but if you know how to neutralize it (just kill the shaman with his AS 2+) it's not that dangerous anymore.

I am intending to write some notes during the battles to give battle reports in this forum after the tournament.
Hope I can manage it.


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