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 Post subject: Final List
PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 12:03 am 
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Joined: Sat May 01, 2010 9:20 pm
Posts: 121
Location: Sylvania
Foxbat, i took your awesome list and made it a little bit more the style i play, also the point of my list is 2500 so i got to add a couple things. How do you think it is?

2500 point list vs Warriors of Chaos.

Characters:
- Archmage, 4th Level, Dispel Scroll, Seerstaff, RoF. (Metal)
- Mage, 2nd Level, Dispel Scroll, Jewel of Dusk (High magic)
- Noble, BSB, DA, GW, Banner of the World Dragon (With White Lions)
- Noble, Star lance, Talisman of Loec, DA, Shield. (on a great eagle)
Core:
- 10 x Archers
- 10 x Archers
Special:
- 14 x Sword Master, FC, Banner of Arcane Protection.
- 14 x Sword Masters, FC, Standard of Balance.
- 18 x White Lions, FC, Sorcery Banner.
- 5 x Dragon Princes, Champ, Standard Bearer, Lion Banner, AoF.
- 5 x Dragon Princes, Champ, Standard Bearer, War Banner, GoC.
Rare:
- 2 x RBT
- 2 x Great Eagles

10 - 12 power Dice, 1 bound spell.
5 Dispel Dice and 2 scroll.

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Last edited by Abhorash. on Sat May 15, 2010 8:12 pm, edited 12 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Final List
PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 9:16 am 
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Green Istari

Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2008 11:26 am
Posts: 12665
Location: Otherworld
In general it's a sound list as you'd expect with the guts of it from Foxbat!

I don't think the third mage is very cost-efficient though as he is at the mercy of the dice for spell selection. Also I think you could do with another support unit, so I'd drop him for some more DP's.

Foxbat runs a lot of magic defence as he runs into some pretty mean magic phases. With the 5DD and 2 scrolls I think you'd be fine without any extra magic defence against most lists. I drew against a Gateway list with just 4DD and 1 scroll so I think unless he's running 10+ Power Dice you don't need the extra magic protection.

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 Post subject: Re: Final List
PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 11:58 am 
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Should I change up any of the items i have on my casters? i dropped the 3rd mage fore 5 more DPs. I have tricksters pendant because he chucks 5 dice at infernal gateway, and i want his caster to pop.

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 Post subject: Re: Final List
PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 12:04 pm 
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Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2004 5:21 pm
Posts: 3037
Location: USA
Abhorash. wrote:
I have tricksters pendant because he chucks 5 dice at infernal gateway, and i want his caster to pop.
The Trickster's Pendant is not that good is most cases, but against the Infernal Puppet I think it is entirely pointless.


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 Post subject: Re: Final List
PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 12:41 pm 
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Green Istari

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Yeah the Puppet is pretty good insurance for him.

How many power dice are you expecting him to bring, roughly? I can see World Dragon providing some nice immunity to IF Gateway but it's unlikely to take out a whole block in one go, it's more dangerous against DP's for example.

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 Post subject: Re: Final List
PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 1:09 pm 
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For this list I have a few comments as to possible changes I would consider:
- I agree with Dabber on the Trickster’s Pendant; on the Archmage I would use the original set-up (RoF, DS, Seerstaff);
- As for the Mage, I would look at giving him a Dispel Scroll + Jewel of the Dusk;
- To free up points I would reduce the 2xSM + WL units to 14 models each & drop a Musician on SM with SoB;
- As you will still need a mage bunker, I would move the BoS to the WL;
- For the DP unit that had the BoS, add back the BoE and a Champion with the Gem of Courage;
- Unless the DP unit with the Amulet of Fire has a Champion, you will not be able to take this item;
- Assuming the Standard Bearer is in the second DP unit, I would move the Lion Standard here; and
- Give the BSB a shield (just to use up the remaining 2 pts)

The benefit of these changes is that you end up with:
- Four combat units (2xDP, 2xSM) + WL as a swing mage bunker/combat unit (BSB also in this unit);
- Three combat units have good psychology defences (Std of Balance, Lion Std, and Gem)
- The Mage can cast with 3 PD every round and not impact the 4th level’s first call on the pool dice;
- You will have one unit that ignores woods and one that ignores all difficult terrain; and
- With equally sized infantry units, you also don’t signal which units will likely get characters;

One last thing, if I could free up 10 pts, I would add the Talisman of Loec back on the SM champ with the SoB.

As a side note on Annulian Crystal, I am not a big fan. I have found it’s usually a better investment to take 2xDS or DS + Jewel of the Dusk, especially when the Archmage has the Book of Hoeth.


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 Post subject: Re: Final List
PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 9:14 pm 
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He usually goes all out Khorne, or 12 power dice, so... i have to assume the worst.

I edited my list, my only concern is now that my Archmage is in with the White Lions, i will fear to put them into combat. I really dont want my archmage to die in a combat against some warriors. Plus my White Lions usually do really well in combat and i want them to chop up some warriors. So is there anyway i can protect my Archmage without putting him into my White Lions? also we don't use terrain so thats why im not using the banner of Ellyrion.

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 Post subject: Re: Final List
PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 10:50 pm 
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I'd just try to make sure I had another unit (Swordmasters, Archers?) for the AM to run into as soon as the Lions looked like seeing combat. Easy to get wrong but with practice it works OK.

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 Post subject: Re: Final List
PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 12:27 am 
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Expanding your battle plan to include fall back positions for your Archmage and Mage is a necessity when your character set-up is magic focused.

In your list you have several options including careful placement of terrain in your deployment zone (say a medium sized wood) and careful placement of your Archers and RBTs.

In my games, it is quite common to find my Archmage hanging out with one of the RBT crews or with my Archers as the WL swing into combat mode. Heck, I've even been known to run my Archmage unescorted around the table top when conditions are right.

Also, I think you still have a small problem with your DP unit as there is no champion to carry the magic items noted and will likely result in your list being over 2500 pts.


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 Post subject: Re: Final List
PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 11:46 am 
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Now this is not in anyway meant to be nitpicking but your list is appr. 250pts over your allowance.

I would consider dropping 1 of the SM blocks that should even things out a bit.

Also, FC on 5 dp's is rarely worth it in my experience. The standard bearer is of course needed if you want that magic standard, and the champ for the magic item. But remember it's a massive 50 points, 1/3 of the unit's original cost which makes them waaaay less expendable. And imho that's the beauty of 5 vanilla DP's; they are cheap enough to be thrown at some suicidal mission without you risking what's basically the points of a fully ranked unit of elite infantry.

Of course the FC makes the unit look quite a bit cooler so if that's the most important then go for it. If not I think you should consider stripping 1 of them of everything getting a 150pt unit and then adding one to the other unit so you get 1 unit of 5 vanilla (to act as a ''problem solver''/support unit) and 1 unit of 6 at least with a magic standard and muso to act as a serious hammer. You should only take the champ to carry some vital magic item or to guard a character IMO, since the 20 points for an extra attack isn't really worth it when you get 2 attacks and a wound for 30.
Note that this stunt frees up another 90 points without you loosing anything but 20pts of magic banner and the Amulet of Fire (AoF?).


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 Post subject: Re: Final List
PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 2:26 pm 
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Green Istari

Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2008 11:26 am
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Well as someone who runs FC on DP's I have to admit that SpikeyElf is absolutely right!

:)

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