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 Post subject: First 3000 Points
PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 5:10 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 26, 2009 3:13 am
Posts: 1983
Location: Illinois, USA
Moving to 3000 points for the first time and looking for some feedback. I'm way too character heavy (38.5%) but the temptation to bring 2 lords was overwhelming. Looking to see opinions on how battles this size typically play out and if using both lord slots is suggested or bypassed for more specials. The battle will be against Lizardmen (though I'm not looking to tailor the list to them just for input on how it may or may not play against them). My opponent is always amazed that I don't bring a Star Dragon so I think I will give in and try it. I've avoided it for so long but will give it a go unless comments from the board can shed some light on battles at this point level.

Opponent will most likely bring Slann in Temple Guard, Engine of the Gods and a tough dude on a carnosaur. The rest will be a ton of skinks to screen the approach and shoot tons of poison shots at a dragon/eagles. And probably some saurus spears as well.

I also have zero magic defense. I'm thinking about dropping eagles for a scroll caddy as they are susceptible to what I am sure will be a skink onslaught. I chose book of Hoeth because most likely with the slann and engine there will be 6 DD + 2 from an item that let's him save PD for DD, plus scrolls. IF from the book will be my chance to do something in the magic phase. I think I can drop the Engine quickly but the slann will basically be free to cast at will. Which lores does the board usually take with book of hoeth? With no spell selection it seems like Fire, Death or High are best.

Thanks for your comments!

Prince - Star Dragon, Armour of Caledor, Vambraces of Defence, Amulet of Light, Halberd - 621 (the amulet is for if I was playing VC or something ethereal)
Archmage - Lvl 4, Book of Hoeth - 360
Noble - BSB, Barded Steed, Dragon Armour, Shield, Sword of Might, Helm of Fortune - 174

10 Archers - Muso - 115
10 Archers - Muso - 115
20 Spearmen - Full Command - Lion Banner - 230

14 Sword Masters - Full Command, Standard of Balance, Talisman of Loec - 295
14 White Lions - Full Command, Banner of Sorcery, Gem of Courage - 300
5 Dragon Princes - 150
5 Dragon Princes - 150

3 RBT - 300
3 Great Eagles - 150

Total - 3000

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 Post subject: Re: First 3000 Points
PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 5:24 pm 
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Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2004 5:21 pm
Posts: 3037
Location: USA
Bolt Thrower wrote:
I'm way too character heavy (38.5%)
Why do you say that is too character heavy? With the current slot limits, 3000 points flat means characters dominate even more than 2k. I would say you are character light.

Bolt Thrower wrote:
I chose book of Hoeth because most likely with the slann and engine there will be 6 DD + 2 from an item that let's him save PD for DD, plus scrolls. IF from the book will be my chance to do something in the magic phase.
The problem is the Slann's discard 6s power. Your odds of hitting the casting value and getting doubles when 6s are ignored are not great. That and your lack of magic defense.

Bolt Thrower wrote:
14 White Lions - Full Command, Banner of Sorcery, Gem of Courage - 300
When you know you are facing Lizardmen, and are concerned about VC, this is not viable. White Lions without immunity to Fear will break from a single stegadon charge.


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 Post subject: Re: First 3000 Points
PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 11:32 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 26, 2009 3:13 am
Posts: 1983
Location: Illinois, USA
dabber wrote:
Why do you say that is too character heavy? With the current slot limits, 3000 points flat means characters dominate even more than 2k. I would say you are character light.

Interesting. This could be--as the points increase characters have more impact? In my 2250 battles it always seems like the army performs better with minimal characters and more specials.

dabber wrote:
White Lions without immunity to Fear will break from a single stegadon charge.

This was definitely a concern of mine, but only so many banners to go around, you know? I was thinking they would perform more as a bunker for the mage and therefore I would strive to keep away from combat or have a secondary unit nearby for the archmage to scurry to should the lions look to get engaged.

So, considering this feedback, I could keep the original list but change out the lions for Phoenix Guard since I wasn't looking to get them in combat anyway and this would provide a bit more psyche protection. Or I drop the lions and increase characters per the following list.

Prince - Star Dragon, Armour of Caledor, Vambraces of Defence - 606
Archmage - Lvl 4, Ring of Fury, Silver Wand - 310
Noble - BSB, Barded Steed, Dragon Armour, Shield, Sword of Might, Helm of Fortune - 174
Mage - Lvl 2, Seerstaff, Scroll - 185
Mage - Lvl 2, Jewel of Dusk, Scroll - 170

2 x 10 Archers - 220
20 Spearmen - - Full Command - Lion Banner - 230

14 Sword Masters - Full Command, Standard of Balance, Talisman of Loec - 295
5 Dragon Princes - 150
5 Dragon Princes - 150
Lion Chariot - 140

3 RBT - 300

Total - 3000

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 Post subject: Re: First 3000 Points
PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 1:26 pm 
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Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2004 5:21 pm
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Bolt Thrower wrote:
dabber wrote:
Why do you say that is too character heavy? With the current slot limits, 3000 points flat means characters dominate even more than 2k. I would say you are character light.

Interesting. This could be--as the points increase characters have more impact? In my 2250 battles it always seems like the army performs better with minimal characters and more specials.

Under the current rules, character slots increase too quickly. At 2000 points, spending 40% on characters is about maxed out. Yet you get a lord and a hero every extra 1000 pts. Star Dragon costs 600, which is 60% of that. Archmage plus Mage exceeds 500, or over 50%. Thus spending relatively more on characters.
You can play a 3000 pt battle and not even try to use troops in close combat. RBTs and archers shoot, a bunker unit to protect wizards against enemy shooting, some Eagles and other bait to slow down the enemy, and other characters for all your close combat punch. Or think about a maxed out enemy army at 3000 points - 2 Bloodthirsters and 4 Khorne Heralds on juggernauts. Are you relatively concerned by any of the troops that go with that, or are you required to focus entirely on the characters? Can you stop all that without your own characters? Sure those Khorne Heralds will be in Flesh Hound units, but if you kill all the hounds yet the Heralds get into combat healthy, the Daemon player will be thrilled. I admit Daemons are, as always, the most extreme example, but you can make a similar comparison with other books.


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