Looking to start, check my 2k list

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Aesanar
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Looking to start, check my 2k list

#1 Post by Aesanar »

I have long been a fan of armies that use synergy and disciplined skilled infantry, this explains my large Empire army and my interest in HE. What do you think of the following list? too OTT? Also, can HE even compete in WFB? I rarely see a list that doesn't pack a Star Dragon or Teclis. I like the fluff behind HE, especially the bits on Aenarion, Belennar and Eltharion. Wish princes not riding dragons were more viable than taking an AM.

Level 4, Silver Wand, Ring of Fury, Scrollx2

Level 2, Seerstaff, Scroll

Battle Standard Bearer, Dragon Armor, Great Weapon, Banner of Sorcery

20 Spears, Full Command

20 Spears, Full Command

10 Swordmasters, champion, amulet of light, musician

6 Dragon Princes

2 Tiranoc Chariots

3 Repeater Bolt Throwers

1 Eagle

2000 Points
[i]He that breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom.

Let him not vow to walk in the dark, who has not seen the nightfall.

Never talking
Just keeps walking
spreading his magic...[/i]
SpellArcher
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Re: Looking to start, check my 2k list

#2 Post by SpellArcher »

Looks good to me.

Main issue I can see is psychology. I'd either try to put in the Dragonhorn or drop the Lvl2 for some magic standards and maybe an extra support unit.

I'm not convinced the non-Dragon Prince is that much worse than the Archmage. I'm struggling against Daemons with him but my list has lots of room for improvements.
Bolt Thrower
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Re: Looking to start, check my 2k list

#3 Post by Bolt Thrower »

Is your BSB mounted? It looks like he's on foot. You'll have to be careful with him with that build as he's susceptible to being torn up pretty quick with just a 5+ save.

I agree with SpellArcher about psychology. There's just too much stuff out there that have fear or terror. Lion Banner on a spear unit and gem of courage instead of amulet of light on the sword masters would help.
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SpellArcher
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Re: Looking to start, check my 2k list

#4 Post by SpellArcher »

Bolt Thrower wrote:Is your BSB mounted? It looks like he's on foot. You'll have to be careful with him with that build as he's susceptible to being torn up pretty quick with just a 5+ save.
I run something comparable and he's Ok so long as you're measured with him. Too aggressive and he will die as you say. Against the right enemy he's fine in combat.
dabber
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Re: Looking to start, check my 2k list

#5 Post by dabber »

Aesanar wrote:Also, can HE even compete in WFB? I rarely see a list that doesn't pack a Star Dragon or Teclis.
In a comp limited environment, HE can do fine. But playing with multiple infantry blocks is difficult for everyone, and is really difficult when they have no psych/break protection. Two spear blocks is extremely limiting.
Aesanar wrote:Battle Standard Bearer, Dragon Armor, Great Weapon, Banner of Sorcery
20 Spears, Full Command
20 Spears, Full Command
I just cannot see a reason to do this. Take Phoenix Guard instead, and put the banner on them, so the BSB can take something to keep him alive.
Aesanar wrote:10 Swordmasters, champion, amulet of light, musician
Since the only units where the amulet of light matters cause fear or terror, and you have no protection against those, this is not a good idea. If you want to kill wraiths, I would rather put amulet of light on DPs instead.
Aesanar wrote:6 Dragon Princes
6 doesn't provide much over 5.


Biggest problem is you have ZERO protection against psychology, which means you will be taking massive amounts of tests, and thus failing critical ones.
Aesanar
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Re: Looking to start, check my 2k list

#6 Post by Aesanar »

Ok, how about this upgraded 2250 list:

AM = 350
-lv. 4, Forlariath's Robes, Silver Wand, Talisman of Saphery

Mage = 185
-lv. 2, Seerstaff, Dispel Scroll

BSB Noble = 182
-Dragon Armor, Enchanted Shield, Barded Steed, Halbred, Ring of Fury

24x Spears (6x4) = 266
-Full Command, Shields, Light Armor, Spears, Lion Standard

10x Archers = 110

20x Phoenix Guard = 405
-Full Command, Banner of Sorcery, Keeper of the Flame w/ Dragon Horn

6x Dragon Princes = 270
-Full Command, Skeinsliver, Banner of Ellyrion

2 Tiranoc Chariots = 170

3 Repeater Bolt Throwers = 300

1 Eagle = 50

at this point I can either add:
5x Shadow Warriors = 80 ND ANOTHER EAGLE = 50

or

7X white lions (cause stubborn + S6 is rocking!)

Thoughts?
[i]He that breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom.

Let him not vow to walk in the dark, who has not seen the nightfall.

Never talking
Just keeps walking
spreading his magic...[/i]
pk-ng
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Re: Looking to start, check my 2k list

#7 Post by pk-ng »

7 wl is kinda useless. their there to tarpit not charge in to get killed in 1 turn of combat. And you can only have 4 rares and you have 4 already usesless you were going to drop a RBT for that 5 SW and eagle
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Angel
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Re: Looking to start, check my 2k list

#8 Post by Angel »

I like the list a lot, and I have one suggestion.
You could fit in another infantry unit if you shave some points from the Dragon Princes. Drop the command, banner skeinsliver and use the points you have to buy a unit of 12 White Lions with command and perhaps move the Lion Standard to them instead. If you drop your DPs to 5 you can give the spears a Warbanner to compensate.
Just some thoughts :wink:
[quote="Brian Mage"]As usual Angel has it spot on!!! [/quote]

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Aesanar
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Re: Looking to start, check my 2k list

#9 Post by Aesanar »

AM = 350
-lv. 4, Forlariath's Robes, Silver Wand, Talisman of Saphery

Mage = 185
-lv. 2, Seerstaff, Dispel Scroll

BSB Noble = 182
-Dragon Armor, Enchanted Shield, Barded Steed, Halbred, Ring of Fury

24x Spears (6x4) = 266
-Full Command, Shields, Light Armor, Spears, Lion Standard

10x Archers = 110

21x Phoenix Guard = 420
-Full Command, Banner of Sorcery, Keeper of the Flame w/ Dragon Horn

5x Dragon Princes = 160
-Musican

5x Dragon Princes = 160
-Musican

2 Tiranoc Chariots = 170

2x Repeater Bolt Throwers = 200

1 Eagle = 50

The DPs + chariots give me a mobile element while the eagle gives distraction. mean whileI have two big blocks of infantry in the middle that both immune to fear.

I miss the scouts and extra firepower of my 3rd bolt thrower, but i feel that extra mobility, shock troops and magic is more important. Thoughts?
[i]He that breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom.

Let him not vow to walk in the dark, who has not seen the nightfall.

Never talking
Just keeps walking
spreading his magic...[/i]
Angel
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Re: Looking to start, check my 2k list

#10 Post by Angel »

I used a pretty similar list a few years ago, it works very well.
[quote="Brian Mage"]As usual Angel has it spot on!!! [/quote]

[url=http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=33158]Illyria and the Silver Legion - the story of my High Elves[/url]

[url=http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=31409]Visit my High Elves log[/url]
Bolt Thrower
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Re: Looking to start, check my 2k list

#11 Post by Bolt Thrower »

Aesanar wrote:BSB Noble = 182
-Dragon Armor, Enchanted Shield, Barded Steed, Halbred, Ring of Fury
When in combat your enchanted shield will be wasted because he's using a halberd which is a two-handed weapon. That means he's only a 3+ armour save in combat instead of 1+ were he equipped with a lance. I know you want the strength 5 attacks all the time, but it may be leaving him vulnerable in combat.

Other than that I quite like it. Combo charging those DP's and chariots is mucho fun! You could drop 2 phoenix guard and the musicians on the DP's for that second eagle, but think about what each of those setups would get you. I personally think the second eagle is worth it as extra redirection/march blocking and a threat to war machines seems points better spent in my humble opinion.
Battle Standard Bearer. Don't leave home without it.
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Aesanar
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Re: Looking to start, check my 2k list

#12 Post by Aesanar »

I agree, Eagles are amazing if used right...otherwise they are a complete waste.

Playing woddies for a few months taught me the value of redirecting charges, oh what fun!

Question, I bought my BSB a halberd, but don't all heroes come with a HW no matter what? Could simply chose to use my HW instead of my halberd? I want my BSB to be with my infantry to help with Ld checks and add in a few kills. I suppose I could always drop the ring and give him the standard AoC/GP/Great sword combo on foot. thoughts?

So, here is my new list:

AM = 350
-lv. 4, Forlariath's Robes, Silver Wand, Talisman of Saphery

Mage = 185
-lv. 2, Seerstaff, Dispel Scroll

BSB Noble = 182
-Dragon Armor, Enchanted Shield, Barded Steed, Halbred, Ring of Fury
OR
(BSB Noble w/ Armor of Caledor, Great Sword, Guardian Phoenix = 160 + 1 Phoenix guard )


24x Spears (6x4) = 266
-Full Command, Shields, Light Armor, Spears, Lion Standard

10x Archers = 110

19x Phoenix Guard = 390
-Full Command, Banner of Sorcery, Keeper of the Flame w/ Dragon Horn

5x Dragon Princes = 150

5x Dragon Princes = 150

2 Tiranoc Chariots = 170

2x Repeater Bolt Throwers = 200

2x Eagles = 100
[i]He that breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom.

Let him not vow to walk in the dark, who has not seen the nightfall.

Never talking
Just keeps walking
spreading his magic...[/i]
Bolt Thrower
Posts: 2021
Joined: Tue May 26, 2009 3:13 am
Location: Illinois, USA

Re: Looking to start, check my 2k list

#13 Post by Bolt Thrower »

Aesanar wrote:Question, I bought my BSB a halberd, but don't all heroes come with a HW no matter what? Could simply chose to use my HW instead of my halberd? I want my BSB to be with my infantry to help with Ld checks and add in a few kills. I suppose I could always drop the ring and give him the standard AoC/GP/Great sword combo on foot. thoughts?
Yes, you could opt to use his hand weapon and get the nice save that way, but then it's possibly at odds with the strategy you mention about him making an infantry unit more hitty as he will only be S4. It seems to me that it revolves around how vital to your strategy it is for him to carry the ring of fury. My question for that would be how quickly do you think he will get into combat with his unit? If he's in combat quickly then the ring becomes 40 unusable points and isn't drawing the dice/scrolls to make your mages more effective. If your strategy is to rack up some kills in combat with him, then I definitely would go with the GW setup. I guess, to me right now, he just seems to be spread a bit thin. With the GW setup, he has a very defined purpose and can do it well. With the ring setup, he's bolstering the magic phase but only if you keep him out of combat for at least 3 turns.

The addition of the eagle looks great! Regardless of your decision on the BSB, I think it looks like a strong list.
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Aesanar
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2006 4:04 am
Location: Nagarythe

Re: Looking to start, check my 2k list

#14 Post by Aesanar »

ok, i decided that I want my BSB to focus on CC support for my spears. The ring would be nice, but I cannot fit it on my AM. I need my AM to survive the battle as he is fragile but expensive and the ward saves cost too much save for a guardian phoenix. Hopefully taking the ring out wont prove to be a detriment. I always liked both Ring of Fury ad Ring of Corin, just wish I had space for them.

AM = 350
-lv. 4, Forlariath's Robes, Silver Wand, Talisman of Saphery

Mage = 185
-lv. 2, Seerstaff, Dispel Scroll

BSB Noble = 160
w/ Armor of Caledor, Great Sword, Guardian Phoenix

24x Spears (6x4) = 266
-Full Command, Shields, Light Armor, Spears, Lion Standard

10x Archers = 110

20x Phoenix Guard = 405
-Full Command, Banner of Sorcery, Keeper of the Flame w/ Dragon Horn

5x Dragon Princes = 150

5x Dragon Princes = 150

2 Tiranoc Chariots = 170

2x Repeater Bolt Throwers = 200

2x Eagles = 100

=2250


thanks again! I'll let you guys know how this does.
[i]He that breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom.

Let him not vow to walk in the dark, who has not seen the nightfall.

Never talking
Just keeps walking
spreading his magic...[/i]
SpellArcher
Green Istari
Posts: 13841
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2008 11:26 am
Location: Otherworld

Re: Looking to start, check my 2k list

#15 Post by SpellArcher »

Nice list, like it!

It has only just enough shooting and close combat killing power IMHO. However, magic is strong and two very solid blocks with good fast support.
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