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PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 4:01 am 
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Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2004 2:17 pm
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Location: Belgrade, Serbia
the reason is that my regular opponent is a very good friend but we have no concept of friendly lists :)
he plays vampires and beasts and just to give an idea what I have to play against I will give you an example of his list:

Vampire Lord (Level 3, Hellsteed, Red Fury, Avatar of Death (HW-Shield), Beguile, Dreadlance, Wristbands of Black Gold)
Red Fury, Beguile, Dreadlance combo is just insane, and all that on a flyer that is hard to take out with shooting
Vampire (Battle Standard Bearer-The Drakenhof Banner, Dread Knight, Goulkin)
in blood knights
Vampire (Dread Knight, Walking Death, Walach's Bloody Hauberk)
in blood knights, used for challenges
Vampire (Flying Horror, Sword of Battle, Flayed Hauberk)
if deployed in ghouls with their free march move can reach 28" in turn 1, used as warmachine hunter
20 Zombies
2x10 Crypt Ghouls
2x3 Spirit Hosts
8 Cairn Wraiths
4 Blood Knights (Kastellan, The Flag of Blood Keep)
4+ward against shooting + regeneration + 2 banners + walking death = pretty good deathstar unit :)

this is the latest incarnation of my list which developed through many lost battles against my friends vampires and beastmen and it won the last game against the forementioned vampire army. it also performed well against the beastmen list incliding doombull in a unit of minos, 3 shamans with a heardstone thing and lore of beasts, 4 ungor raiders, 5 chariots (maybe 4), a unit of 3 razorgors, 2 units of harpies, 2 gorgons. so, my experience is that beastmen are not a weak army if built in a right way.

Finaly the list:

Prince (Great Weapon, Star Dragon, Armour of Caledor, Vambraces of Defence, Amulet of Light)
Noble (Dragon Armour, Shield, Barded Steed, Star Lance, Talisman of Loec) usually goes with DPs
Mage (2x Dispel Scroll)
2x 10 Sea Guard (Shields)
9 Sword Masters (Bladelord, Dragonhorn)
9 Sword Masters
14 White Lions (FC, Lion Standard, Gem of Courage)
5 Dragon Princes
5 Reavers (Musician)
Lion Chariot
3x Bolt Thrower
Eagle

So, what do you think?

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 6:16 am 
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Posts: 39
Looks solid, but there will always be the but ;) :
The Prince doesn't need a great weapon, when mounted, only gets +1 str and if the dragon dies, he is toast, give him halberd and save the points.
Talisman of loec looks nice, but it is risky, you give half of your noble points away when using that talis. Not good if he isn't expendable and cheap.
Why 10 sea guard? Unless their just there to protect repeater bolt thrower, I believe both spears and archers could do the same job, respectively cheaper and better.
9 swordmasters is too much/too little. Sizes of 7 and 14 is superb, giving you the maximum frontage of 7. The bladelord doesn't really need the dragon horn, but there, the talismen of loec truly shines.
14 white lions is good, but the gem of courage is slightly wasted. You already got lion standard.
Besides from that, looks fair and square. =D>


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 4:50 pm 
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Having no BSB on the Noble for the White Lions is kind of unfortunate. Skeinsliver is really nice against armies you want to get the 1st turn against, especially playing 3 RBT, you want to have that extra round of shooting to hopefully nuke units/characters.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 5:03 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 26, 2009 3:13 am
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Location: Illinois, USA
I agree with dropping the GW from the Prince. Halberd is just fine.

Do you actually get the Seaguard into combat this way? Has it happened before and how did they fare? I ask because to me you might as well go for archers instead and have the points.

Drop the talisman of loec from your noble and make him a BSB. Loec on the SM champ would be good.

If there truly is no notion of "friendly" then why not a 4th RBT? Drop the Reavers and the eagle (obviously) and you should be able to get it. You could also get it by dropping 4 SM instead of reavers making them 7 each and the eagle.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 6:50 pm 
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Location: Belgrade, Serbia
Great weapom is there just because I had 6 points to spare. If dragon gets killed and prince doesn't flee, which is not very probable, that extra strenght just might not make any difference :) And I really like the way a model with a big sword looks on a dragon. Seaguard is also there because i find them to be cool and fluffwise they go together with bolt throwers. I hate archers models and spearmen are not best used in such small units. They actually work for me. They can have 4+ save in combat and I usually field them close together in 2x5 formations. If there is a hill even better. They can take on any fast and light unit trying to disable bolt throwers in 2nd turn. Their shooting also helps. I also like them to hold a unit of spirit hosts. You put one in front and one in flank and use hw&shield for 4+ save and you will win or draw combat for a long time before something with magical attacks is available to make some actuall wounds and finish them off.
I used to play with BSB and battle banner in a large unit of DP with helm of fortune champ and std of balance. Sometimes they worked wonders but they were an enormous pointsink and all the attacks that a unit gets are directed at teh BSB. And he alone is worth almost 300VP to the enemy.
Starlance noble is a one hit wonder. On charge, he ignores armour saves and with talisman of loec he can get through ward saves. He gives away 80VP automaticaly when uses ToL but it is used only if he is to get 2-3 or even more times that value back and I love him :) And he has a chance to stay alive after using it unlike bladelord.
No BSB is tough on white lions and that is why I gave them gem of courage to make sure they will hold their ground for a turn. That is usually enough to get some support into combat. If it takes longer, I didn't play right. Dragonhorn is a great item and I needed a champion to put it on so I took a SM rather than DP for 3 reasons. He is cheaper, he can guard my mage and I have models for 20 SM with full command so if you take out the standard bearer and the musician a have just enough models for my 2 9 strong SM units. I take them 9 strong because it is a nice number to have with panic from shooting and magic in mind and they all get into contact with a 6 wide cavalry units and after that the enemy unit is no longer 6 wide :)
Eagle and reavers are essential for making traps, opening enemy flanks, diverting and all the pretty things they do, wouldn't change them in a world.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 8:28 pm 
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in terms of magic items, i'd put the dragon horn on the noble and the talisman of loec on your bladelord. He then becomes a challenge machine. i've had many instances where my loec'T bladelord has taken out opposing hero slots because of it. You figure he would die if the opponent had a chance to attack back anyway so why not deny them the satisfaction by killing himself beforehand? It seems silly to hurt your expensive noble when you can hit nearly as hard while sacrficing very few points.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 9:15 pm 
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I believe he is supposed to die at the end of the Close Combat phase after using the talisman, so just before the opponents next turn. He could still kill the Bladelord even after he used the Talisman (and is still alive, hehe). Not important otherwise, but your opponent can still produce overkill points in a challenge.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 5:42 pm 
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CrazyCarl wrote:
Having no BSB on the Noble for the White Lions is kind of unfortunate. Skeinsliver is really nice against armies you want to get the 1st turn against, especially playing 3 RBT, you want to have that extra round of shooting to hopefully nuke units/characters.


I would say that a bsb against fear causers is rather wasted in generall tbh. but hey thats just me ;)


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 11:17 pm 
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your list is fine. I see no problems with it. All you items are correctly slotted.

The only problem I see is a lack of magic defense. For me 1 scroll caddy doesn't cut it. But if it's good enough for you then you won't have a problem!

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PostPosted: Sat May 01, 2010 12:19 pm 
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Wicksi wrote:
I would say that a bsb against fear causers is rather wasted in generall tbh. but hey thats just me ;)


Well, think it through. The combats that the High Elf army is most likely to lose by a small amount but not be auto-broken will likely involve the Star Dragon or the White Lions, neither of which can be autobroken. Would a re-roll be helpful to those units, do you think?


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