2250 Magic Heavy

[Optimistic]

I've been playing with the Asur for nearly two years now and have yet to find a list that satisfies me. Dragons while great to play every once in a while, don't win you over many friends and as of late, have been faring increasingly poorly in tournaments with heavy magic opponents. So it is with this in mind that i have been playing magic lists, with varying levels of success. This is the list i have been mostly using with slight changes here and there, all of which seem to have negligible results for me on the table top, http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic. ... 77&start=0

So once again I've come here to submit a list for criticism,

~Characters~
Archmage~ 360
Book of Hoeth

Mage Lvl 1~ 150
Silver Wand
Dispel Scroll x 2

Nobel BSB ~ 218
Barded Elven Steed, Dragon Armor, Lance, Shield
Battle Banner

~Core~
Archers x 10 ~110

Archers x 10 ~110

~Special~
White Lions x 12~ 217
Standard Bearer, Musician, Lion Standard

Sword Masters x 14~ 210

Dragon Princes x5 ~ 185
Standard Bearer
Banner of Ellyrion

Dragon Princes x5 ~220
Standard Bearer
Banner of Sorcery

Tiranoc Chariot ~ 85

Tiranoc Chariot ~ 85

~Rare~
Repeater Bolt Thrower x 2~200

Great Eagle x2 ~100

Total ~ 2250

[Marinero]

It seems well rounded. One question though - why is your mage lvl 1?

[SpellArcher]

Looks pretty decent. WarpPhoenix runs a similar list with the SM's in two 7's and does OK. I guess you are dependent on rolling the right spells but you should be fine most of the time.

One question though - why is your mage lvl 1?

I'm guessing this is the theory that the AM is rolling 2x4 dice, looking for IF. Quite likely he gets one, after which any spells from the Mage are likely to be stopped by the DD/scrolls that couldn't be used against the IF.

[Marinero]

I'm guessing this is the theory that the AM is rolling 2x4 dice, looking for IF. Quite likely he gets one, after which any spells from the Mage are likely to be stopped by the DD/scrolls that couldn't be used against the IF.

Yeah, I have read about this theory.. However, I do not agree with it. Getting a spell with IF is not guaranteed and also, as we discussed with you in another thread, there is a chance that the spell selection of the Lvl 4 with the BoH may not be as good as desired. In this case, a decent support from the lvl 2 would be golden.

Also, my theory is, that if you bring a BoH archmage and a seer lvl 2, you should start casting with the seer on his soft targets - i.e magic missiles on his fliers or fast cavalry. The opponent would have tough time deciding whether to stop the spell and then leave the lvl 4 to cast at ease, or hold back his dispel dice/scrolls to stop the more serious spell the lvl 4 may cast without IF..

Anyway, the book of hoeth is great when things work out in a positive way

[Marinero]

@Optimistic - and by the way, your set up is definitely NOT magic heavy, it is medium magic.

Magic heavy is:
* Archmage, lvl 4, seerstaff, ring of fury, dispel scroll
* Dragon Mage, lvl 2, silver wand + preffered items
* Mage, lvl 2, dispel scroll, jewel of dusk
+ Banner of Sorcery

[SpellArcher]

You make a good case Marinero. The advantage of the Lvl1 is that he keeps the PD low for hard comp like ETC. WarpPhoenix's set-up was specifically designed for SCGT comp which has a hard cap of 9 PD. He too includes the Silver Wand with a view to casting on the Lvl1 first.

@Optimistic - and by the way, your set up is definitely NOT magic heavy, it is medium magic

One man's medium is another man's heavy....

[Optimistic]

Looks pretty decent. WarpPhoenix runs a similar list with the SM's in two 7's and does OK. I guess you are dependent on rolling the right spells but you should be fine most of the time.

One question though - why is your mage lvl 1?

I'm guessing this is the theory that the AM is rolling 2x4 dice, looking for IF. Quite likely he gets one, after which any spells from the Mage are likely to be stopped by the DD/scrolls that couldn't be used against the IF.

That's exactly the reason, with one mage going only for if rolls i would find it hard to believe that any of the lvl 1 spells would not be dispelled.

@ Marinero- However i do see your point about casting with a level 2 first to try and force an opponent to make difficult decisions with their dispel die, and quite frankly i considered using that same approach. However as you so keenly pointed out, that would require an even larger investment into the magic phase, with which i've frankly lost a lot of faith in, so i guess you could accurately point out that this list is medium magic. Mainly however i am looking to get one or two big spells off per phase with impunity, although yes i am aware that i run the risk of not getting the spells i want, but that's a risk inherent to using the book.

Also i have made extensive use of the 7 strong Sms and they have performed admirably, under the right circumstances, but i have no experience using Sms in a large ish block so if anyone has any points on that i'd be happy to hear it. My only other main concern is the WL's, as this will be my first prolonged attempt at using them instead of PG. How do people find they preform? are they a sufficient anvil or would a swap back to PG serve me better.

Thanks for all the replies so far, appreciate any and all comments.

[Marinero]

@ Marinero- However i do see your point about casting with a level 2 first to try and force an opponent to make difficult decisions with their dispel die, and quite frankly i considered using that same approach. However as you so keenly pointed out, that would require an even larger investment into the magic phase, with which i've frankly lost a lot of faith in, so i guess you could accurately point out that this list is medium magic. Mainly however i am looking to get one or two big spells off per phase with impunity, although yes i am aware that i run the risk of not getting the spells i want, but that's a risk inherent to using the book.

Fair points, I hope this approach works for you.

Also i have made extensive use of the 7 strong Sms and they have performed admirably, under the right circumstances, but i have no experience using Sms in a large ish block so if anyone has any points on that i'd be happy to hear it. My only other main concern is the WL's, as this will be my first prolonged attempt at using them instead of PG. How do people find they preform? are they a sufficient anvil or would a swap back to PG serve me better.

The way you have set up your WL unit is good, and they should perform well for you. You should make sure that the BSB is around them though, you do not want to risk on a single Ltd 8 test and have them break

On SMs - I use from time to time a block of 15 SM, FC and banner of balance.They have always performed exceptionally well for me. Shooting is the casual risk for them but you should know this and plan accordingly. I do not know how a block of 14 SM without upgrades would do though.. As a minimum, try to give them a FC, a ToL for the blade lord and a magic banner - if not the BoB, then the banner of Ellyrion may be a good choice

[SpellArcher]

I Agree with Marinero.

At this size, you keep the Lions cheap with the Lion Std. They will hold for a bit. If bigger, I go FC with Standard of Balance and an Enchanted Item to keep them going longer.