2250 escalation league "end game" list

[ArchonRoc]

Hi Everyone,

I am just getting back to WHFB after 8 years of absence. I've decided to pick up Empire, and am starting to get the hang of it.

With this slightly-less-than-triumphant return, I've somehow managed to pull my fiance along with me, and into an escalation league that will be finishing out at 2250.

To the point: she's picked up the HElves. She loves the eagle, cavalry, lion models (animal heavy, but I'm not sure about the dragons).

The games between us will be 'friendly' I'm sure, at least not that much power-gaming. However, we will be playing at the local store that has a few harder lists (though nothing really up there, i.e. DElf black dragon, 2 hydra lists), and she does want to win some.

We've come up with the following:

Archmage, Lvl. 4, TChariot, Vambraces, Dusk Jewel

Mage, lvl. 2, Dispel Scroll, Sacred Incense
w/ 11 White Lions, Musc, Banner of Arcane Warding

20 Phoenix Guard, FC, Skeinsilver, Warbanner

12 Swordmasters

6 Shadow Warriors

5 Silver Helms, Mus

Lion Chariot

10 Archers

10 Archers

2 RBTs

2 Great Eagles


The basic Idea is a sort of 3 column set-up. White lions in front of the PG, in front of the SM

one side has the SW screening for the helms, the other has the chariot by itself to protect flanks.

Turn before the charge, maneuver to spread out, so that the back units only face a single turn of shooting.

3 GEagles for spell casting, flanking, Warmachine/mage Hunting

Firebase of 20 archers and 2 RBTs, 10 Archers and 1 RBT on each flank of the board, or a refused flank/castle type defense.

The white lions with their cloaks, incense, and MR should be able to screen the PG and SM to help them get into combat.

Could add eagles to flank protect and drop the flank protectors to actual flankers.

Obviously this is a general defensive scheme, that I hope isn't too hard to get the hang of to begin with (her first wargaming, though she is mean at backgammon) which should give the ability to hit some armies quite well.

All thoughts and help are appreciated, I have no practical experience with HElves in the past several editions.

Thanks in advance.

[dabber]

Archmage, Lvl. 4, Great Eagle, Folariath's, Dusk Jewel

Illegal - the robe has to be on foot.
Archmage on an Eagle is very difficult to lose. Any sort of shooting or enemy magic will kill him way too easily. The Dark Elf one works a lot better, because at least he gets the pendant of broken.

Mage, lvl. 2, Dispel Scroll, Sacred Incense
w/ 11 White Lions, Musc, Banner of Arcane Warding

Sacred Incense is rarely worth having, and is only vaguely worthwhile to protect Swordmasters.
White Lions NEED immunity to fear.

Noble, BSB, Barded Warhorse, HArmor, Shield, Lion Standard

Never give a banner to a BSB you could give to a unit. Give him stuff to fight or keep him alive instead. For a general purpose list, dragon armour is always worth the 2 points. Banner makes little sense in PG since they are already immune to fear and don't test for terror.

w/ 13 Phoenix Guard, FC, Skeinsilver, Warbanner

13 PG really isn't worth having. Not enough rank bonus, and they don't outnumber.

[ArchonRoc]

Ok, I made some changes, I left the sacred incense in because the purpose of the unit is to block nearly the entire army from shooting.

I expect that this unit will be the attention of 20 hangunners, 10 Xbowmens, and 5- 10 Outriders for about 2 turns.

Depending on the set-up, they may also be shielding the chariots from cannons.

With this in mind, if you tell me the -1 to hit still isn't worth it, i'll switch it out: BTW, I was looking for an item to make them immune to fear, but could not find it?

Alternatively, I could spare down the lion unit, beef the shadow warriors, and give them the incense mage (now -2 to hit) to guard the core of the army.

Switched the mage from eagle to chariot, and now have another flank protector. 1 chariot each side of the infantry column, behind whatever the screening unit is for that side (shadow warriors, or silver helms, which may be switched to DPs at some point if points allow, or made into a 10 strong unit)

Also dropped the BSB because I just couldn't figure out what to do with him (I've got my griffon BSB down for Empire, but having a hard time with more options here). If they're really that good, what should I drop for them?

Thanks so much for the help. She likes the PG models, but I didn't realize they were a static CR-based unit. I figured they were more for holding big baddies for a turn or two.

How effective does something like this tactic seem to be? Do people play with screens like this? Can I shave down the SM to a small hard hitting unit that would be used on flanks instead?

Again, thanks for the help, and thanks in advance for any more help.

[dabber]

the purpose of the unit is to block nearly the entire army from shooting.
I expect that this unit will be the attention of 20 hangunners, 10 Xbowmens, and 5- 10 Outriders for about 2 turns.

The Outriders should be dead almost immediately from RBT and archer shooting. If the Empire goes first, the High Elves will be largely out of range on turn 1. You are using a 185 pt character to reduce the damage on a unit that costs less than that. And the unit doesn't have enough size to screen more than the Swordmaster unit. You could just increase the size of the Swordmaster unit with all those points instead.

Depending on the set-up, they may also be shielding the chariots from cannons.

Cannons will simply shoot at the unit in front and try to bounce into the cannon. Unless you get the chariot more than 6" behind, that is entirely reasonable on the part of the Empire player and not remotely illegal - they will still likely hit the screening unit. A chariot that far back will have trouble doing much.

BTW, I was looking for an item to make them immune to fear, but could not find it?

Lion Standard, Standard of Balance.

Switched the mage from eagle to chariot, and now have another flank protector.

If you are concerned about cannons, putting your critical Archmage in a chariot is a poor idea. He needs the protection of a unit of troops to give him shooting protection.

l also dropped the BSB because I just couldn't figure out what to do with him

Helm of Fortune, Sword of Might. He's a fighting character, the BSB is a nice bonus.

Thanks so much for the help. She likes the PG models, but I didn't realize they were a static CR-based unit. I figured they were more for holding big baddies for a turn or two.

Without more static CR, what makes you think they can hold a big baddy?

Can I shave down the SM to a small hard hitting unit that would be used on flanks instead?

Other than monsters and impact hits, Swordmasters are always a center unit. They don't need to flank things, and often don't want to (fewer attacks). They just walk up the middle and make the enemy send something nastier at them (which usually is anything but a multi-model unit).

[WarpPhoenix]

In table top games tradditional rules of warfare seem to not come into play, its best to just play the game for a while, get the hang of the rules and the way blocks move and fight before trying to come up with a battle plan of any kind, let her slam a few blocks into your lines and let her just feel out the game in general, the rules, her units and her own personal strategy, if she's good at board games in general then this shouldnt be hard at all.

Eventually you'll see more of a challenge and then you wont even need to come up with a battle plan because she'll already have one in her head, even though it wont be on paper. This is just what most GW employees teach new players to do, feel the game out first and the phases and then try to make good lists, good strategies and such and such. But if you're not layering your matress in money then you might want to stear clear of units like Silver helms in tersm of gaming usefullness as its generally seen that they arnt very combat effective and are really mostly there for the lore behind them.

[Sturen]

Hi Everyone,

I am just getting back to WHFB after 8 years of absence. I've decided to pick up Empire, and am starting to get the hang of it.

With this slightly-less-than-triumphant return, I've somehow managed to pull my fiance along with me, and into an escalation league that will be finishing out at 2250.

To the point: she's picked up the HElves. She loves the eagle, cavalry, lion models (animal heavy, but I'm not sure about the dragons).

The games between us will be 'friendly' I'm sure, at least not that much power-gaming. However, we will be playing at the local store that has a few harder lists (though nothing really up there, i.e. DElf black dragon, 2 hydra lists), and she does want to win some.

We've come up with the following:

Archmage, Lvl. 4, TChariot, Vambraces, Dusk Jewel

Vambraces on an archmage, what save is the mage rerolling? I'm not sure about a chariot, put the mage in the PG block without the chariot. I also suggest switching the jewel of dusk for silver wand, ring of fury and some scrolls.

Mage, lvl. 2, Dispel Scroll, Sacred Incense
w/ 11 White Lions, Musc, Banner of Arcane Warding

Sacred incense on WL is a bit pointless. They have a 3+ save already. Make the mage a caster with seerstaff and a scroll.

20 Phoenix Guard, FC, Skeinsilver, Warbanner

Consider BoS

12 Swordmasters

6 Shadow Warriors

5 Silver Helms, Mus

Really worth swapping for DPs

Lion Chariot

10 Archers

10 Archers

2 RBTs

2 Great Eagles


The basic Idea is a sort of 3 column set-up. White lions in front of the PG, in front of the SM

one side has the SW screening for the helms, the other has the chariot by itself to protect flanks.

Turn before the charge, maneuver to spread out, so that the back units only face a single turn of shooting.

3 GEagles for spell casting, flanking, Warmachine/mage Hunting

Firebase of 20 archers and 2 RBTs, 10 Archers and 1 RBT on each flank of the board, or a refused flank/castle type defense.

The white lions with their cloaks, incense, and MR should be able to screen the PG and SM to help them get into combat.

Could add eagles to flank protect and drop the flank protectors to actual flankers.

Obviously this is a general defensive scheme, that I hope isn't too hard to get the hang of to begin with (her first wargaming, though she is mean at backgammon) which should give the ability to hit some armies quite well.



All thoughts and help are appreciated, I have no practical experience with HElves in the past several editions.

Thanks in advance.

No problem