2000 WPS Adepticon DM and AM list

[Stormie]

Yeah, that was some pretty appalling play to be sure and generally rubbish Dark Elf army totally misused. You made the right choice by not picking Shadow- I'd only try it if you were up against Ring of Hotek. He nearly got a draw as well, that's the scariest part! Still, baby steps, that was an easy game (much like mine against Dark Elves last week), you should be ready for some proper opposition next

[Baerion]

Ya I agree with you and yet I still could have lost the game had a couple rolls gone differently. Though had I lost my Archmage I would have gone on the offensive and braved the bottleneck or the side passage to get at the rest of his army with the dragon and my DP's. Whether that would have given me the battle is unknown.

I may have a game this weekend lined up with another High Elf Player. A little civil war could be in order.

[Baerion]

Alright I confirmed that I'll be playing a game against my Friend's high elves this weekend. In the last 4 times I've played him he's brought a prince on star or moon dragon 3 out of the 4 times. He rarely if ever brings magic and so I am expecting DP's, 2 bolters, the Dragon and most likely the BSB battle banner with a scroll caddy.

With my magic I'm hoping to burn through his scrolls in one turn. If he brings the dragon and knights I will likely choose lore of beasts for Beast Cowers, Hunter's Spear, Crow's Feast and Wolf Hunts. Any other ideas?

Hopefully keep the dragon or cavalry at bay and shoot the other. Any other lores I might consider?

[Baerion]

Finished the civil war match his list:
Prince on Sun Dragon with Seafarer's Bow, Armor of Caledor and Gem of courage
Scroll Caddy
Noble BSB with Battle banner on foot (in PG's)

3 RBT
2x10 Spearmen
Lion Chariot
12 Dragon Princes with Lion Standard
5 Shadow Warriors
19 Phoenix Guard with Full Command

This was similar to past lists except instead of a star dragon he had the phoenix guard. I liked his useage of the Seafarer and Sun dragon, but his choice to have one large unit of DP's was different, especially considering the battle banner was in a different unit. He doesn't have any eagles yet which I keep telling him he needs and after this battle he may do just that.

I rolled Burning Head, Wall of Fire and Fireball with my Dragon Mage (not great agains Dragon Armor wearing High Elves) and I chose The last four spells in Lore of beasts (Crow's Feast, Beast Cowers, Hunter's Spear and Wolf Hunts).

The match had two hills facing opposite eachother in each deployment zone and the right side had two separate trees. I have a picture but am travelling for work and haven't a USB cord to upload the pics. So I hid one unit of DP's, my dragon and the lion chariot behind my right flank trees from his bolters on the hill on my left flank. Everything else was lined up near the bolters on my left flank hill with the archmage and the spears centrally located.

He got first turn and moved his Prince to my right flank in sight of my Dragon Mage, and lion chariot. Other than that he moved forward with both units of spears, pg's and dp's. Nothing happened all game for him in the magic phase as I used my 2 dispel scrolls whenever he got drain magic off at a high level and dispelled it otherwise. His first turn shooting was interesting. Rather than shooting his BT at my dragon mage he shot it at the lion chariot and did 1 wound. He three RBT's shot at my Archers and killed 7. At this point I was wondering why he was shooting at this stuff, but didn't mention it until after the game.

During my first turn I moved the eagle who was also behind the trees to the right in front of his DP's and angled it in a way so that if he wanted to charge he would end up in the trees with his cavalry (This Eagle kept his DP's sitting in that position until turn 5 when he finally charged the eagle!!). My archmage moved up for magic and my dragon mage moved up and out of sight of his dragon. During this magic phase I rolled a miscast when casting beast cowers...the result double 6's! So the spell was irresistible but I was left without Beast Cowers for the rest of the game. My shooting took out one RBT and as my 3 archers had panicked that was all I did.

The next turn didn't amount to much for his movement or shooting. He killed 4 sword masters with his RBT's (terrible luck on his to wound rolls after rolling 10 hits out of 12!).

My turn my vanilla DP's on the left flank moved to 1" away from his PG's on their flank (hoping for wolf hunts which wasn't worth it as he still had 2 scrolls). My Lion chariot and DP's both moved out to the edge of the trees to avoid the Seafarer bow on his next turn My DM moved up behind his 12 dp's and in range to flame the shadow warriors. During the magic phase I knocked off a rank of PG's and killed 4 spears. He scrolled wolf hunts. The dragon flame and a panic saw the shadow warriors off and one RBT shot at the Prince but it was out of range. The other two shot at the RBT's and rolled 4 hits on his crewmen, NO WOUNDS! ugghhh..

The third turn got interesting, he faced the DP's with his PG's. his LC and spears moved up. The prince shot and wounded my LC again so it was down to 2 wounds. His RBT's each took a shot at the flank of my DP's and one missed the other took out 1.

My turn I charged the 3 swordmasters into the chariot, then I charged my 6 dp's and LC into his unit of 6 spears. The remaining 4 DP's still charged the BSB noble hoping to kill him with his 5+ armor save. The LC rolled a 6 on the impact hits and wounded on all thus wiping the unit. The DP's overran into the chariot and so got to attack with the swordmasters. I got it down to 2 wounds with the DP's (bad rolls) and then the swordmastes did 3 wounds needing 6's to save and he rolled two 6's to leave it with 1 wound. The lions and the white lions killed the remaining swordmasters and I was unable to pursue due to already overrunning that round. Shooting and magic took out 4 wounds on the Dragon. I missed on 3+ with 2 of 3 bolt throwers but got one wound on it with hunter's spear and 3 wounds with the BT that hit. The DP's into the PG's didn't go well. The noble got to attack first and killed both DP's in base contact with him...thus my plan was defeated. I killed 2 PG's but lost combat and auto-broke to fear causers. They escaped.

In his turn the LC rallied and the pg's faced my deployment zone. He shot the remaining wounds off the LC and shot the flank of my 6dp unit dropping three of them.

My turn I charged the flank of his PG's with my 3 left dp's rallied my other DP's. My shooting finally dropped the dragon and dropped 2 spears and 2 wounds on the foot Prince. Magic wasn't very effective as I only had the DP's to use my dragon mage on and they were immune to fire. He dispelled burning head at his PG's though. Again my dp's failed to do enough wounds and auto-broke. This was a bad decision as they captured my banner of sorcery and I really had no chance anyway. I was probably still reeling from not being able to kill the BSB.

His turn saw the noble move to the side of my spears and drop the remaining DP's that had just fled. His PG's had pursued the DP's and so again faced my deployment zone. His spears on the left faced my rallied DP's. He finally charged with his 12 DP's at my eagle which fled. he was left halfway into the woods.

I charged the spears with my remaning 3 DP's. Moved up with my spears away from the noble and within sight of his big block of DP's (which I forgot to mention I had killed two earlier with hunter's spear). I moved my Dragon Mage into the flank of the PG's as well. Magic saw a hunter's spear go straight through the front rank of the DP's (I KILLED ALL 6!!)2+,2+,3+,4+,5+ and 6+!! It was amazing and demoralized him enough that he went and got some hot wings and ranch to cool off. My dragon cast wall of fire and fireball and fury of khaine all at the PG's which killed them down to 8 with shooting dropping 2 more after finishing the Prince on foot. The PG's ended up failing their panic test from the dragon fire and fled.

His turn he shot both RBT's at the dragon mage and after 10 hits and 5 wounds on the mage the mage was dead and 1 wound off of the sun dragon. I tried to wolf hunts the sun dragon into his pg's flank at the end of the game, got it off but rolled a 3 to move and I think I needed a 4 in order to get the charge. I would have had to suffer a pg attack and his noble but I would have had 4 str 5 attacks at his noble with no saves. I figured if he went down I would win the combat res and could have captured two banners and broken him. Alas I just killed another with fire.

The game ended with him having 6 spears left, 2 RBT's, 5 PG's and his BSB, 4 DP's and his scroll caddy. I had 1 DP, 3 RBT's, my entire block of spears and archmage, my eagle, my sun dragon, and 3 archers.

We each had one table quarter and the game ended about 1500 to 1000 so a Marginal Victory for my ELVES! My opponent should have charged the eagle right away on turn 2 and would have been able to use them later in the game. I think he planned on shooting the eagle every time but always decided that the flank of DP's or the Dragon Mage or swordmasters were always a better option. I am now 2-1-0 with this army and it seems to be going fairly well.

I'm planning on taking it up agains Orcs and Gobs, Warriors of Chaos and Wood Elves this weekend. Should be interesting. Any C&C are welcome.

[Baerion]

I took the Dragon Mage and Archmage up against the Orcs and Goblins this past weekend.

Orcs and Goblins - My opponent had 4 spell casters in his army and the banner of dispel dice so my magic was hard pressed early on. I did however, get an Flames of the Phoenix off on his Night Goblins which he attempted to dispel with 5 dice and rolled double 1's! The flames killed 10 goblins and panicked them and their 2 fanatics off the board. By the second turn I was able to charge his lvl 4 shaman and boar riders with my Talisman Noble. The noble shredded the lvl 4 and the rest of the DP's he was with shredded the boar riders. So after turn 2 his night goblin shaman and his lvl 4 shaman were both gone. He still had 7 dispel dice and 2 scrolls though. I continually dropped orc after orc with RBT fire and march blocked with the eagle. By the time he got to me my archmage had moved in with the archers and the spearmen had prepared for a charge. I had knocked out almost all of his army by turn 4 with combined charges with Lion Chariot and DP's and was in line for a solid victory if not a massacre. Then in one turn he gained almost 1000 points. My archmage miscast and rolled 2 1's to get sucked into the vortex. Then his last orc group broke my spears and ran down a lion chariot that had broken the turn before and having taken the banner of the spearmen the result was 900 some points. It ended in a draw...so disappointing.

[Stormie]

Ahh, how annoying, sounds like you played it just right.

I had pretty much the exact same thing happen with my similar list last week- my Dragon Princes and BSB smashed my opponent's Steam Tank and burst through into the flank of his Inner circle Knights with Arch Lector and BSB, and they rolled the dreaded 1-1 to hold after I'd smashed them so thoroughly! And then to cap it off my Archmage miscast and killed himself too. Them damn dice...

[Baerion]

I'm thinking about making a couple minor changes so that I can include the Skeinsliver and have less deployments. In my last 4 games I have only gotten the first turn once and that was because my opponent gave it to me as it was his choice. With my army I feel like it is very important to have the first turn with the shooting and magic to whittle away at my opponent.

Does anyone have an opinion on how the skeinsliver would hurt or help me here? Hopefully by getting down to 8 deployments I can get +2 to my roll.

[Seredain]

It's one of my favourite items and worth its wait in gold for shooty/magicky lists. Give it a shot: when it works it's worth way more than the 25pts if you can make your ranged power count.

[Baerion]

Updated 9/21/09

Archmage- Seerstaff, Power Stone, Dispel Scroll x 2 - 350
Dragonmage- Ring of Fury, Silver Wand - 435
Noble- DA, Lance, Shield, Barded Steed, BSB, Battle Banner - 218

12 Archers - 132
20 Spears- M, Champion, Standard, Lion Standard - 230

9 Dragon Princes - M, Drakemaster (Skeinsliver), Standard - Banner of Sorcery - 395
1 Lion Chariot - 140

3 Repeater Bolt Throwers - 300
1 Great Eagle - 50

PD: 8+(D3)+1-3 for Dragon Mage + Power stone
DD: 5 +2 scrolls
Placements: 7

With 7 placements and skeinsliver I'm most likely going to get a +2 to the roll to go first. My plan is to hang back, shoot and magic while the Eagle does it's best to march block. I keep the Lion Chariot and the DP's to either flank of my Archmage and Spearmen and if a good opportunity presents itself I let loose the DP's with BB and hopefully wreck through whatever is my most pressing enemy.

I lost a lot of versatility but I now have a really strong Cavalry unit a BSB and most likely I'll be going first. Any thoughts?

[Lord Anathir]

you reaaaaaly want fear/terror immunity on your hammer unit.

[Baerion]

Wow.. did I find that out that hard way last night. I played a game against my friends Lizardmen and had a nice juicy charge on his kroxigors and scar vet in the flank lined up. Failed the fear test and sat. Luckily for me he didn't have anything that could charge my DP's plus battle banner. He wheeled to face me and I charged again in my turn hitting them in the front this time, still assuming I could break them considering he did not have any static combat res. Again failed the fear test and was charged in the next turn... OUCH

Due to me picking the skink priest off his engine with a BT and my Dragon Mage eating his other skink in the 2nd round my magic tore him up and I got the solid victory, but I lost the DP unit, both banners and the BSB for a total of 738 victory points...

So my question now is, do I sacrifice the banner of sorcery to get the standard of balance? Is there any other way to make my DP's immune and still have the banner of sorcery with the list above?

[Chayal]

You don`t need the banner of sorcery. You`ve got plenty of magic with just the archmage and dragon mage.

[Lord Anathir]

yup I'd swap it for standard of balance.

[Baerion]

Alright - I got it swapped out and added a Musician to my Archers.

I'll still be strong in magic though now I'll likely not be able to cast three spells with the Archmage if I go for the 4 dice spell. It will likely be worth it though as I'll be going up against some armies next weekend in our friendly tournament that will have a lot of fear and terror causing units. It will be good practice at choosing spells a little smarter. Thanks for the input and the help. Not being immune with the DP's even at leadershiph nine could have cost me the game.

[Flame of the Asuryan]

You could always fit in gem of courage and enchanted shield in your dragon prince champ, then exchanging your powerstone for skeinsliver. You can get one reliable psych charge out without hurting your magic phase, should be enough.

[Baerion]

I like that idea as well as I really don't want to lose that Banner of Sorcery. The Gem of Courage should ensure I get a crucial charge off during the battle and I guess I'll risk everything else.

I will hopefully give it a shot here in the next week before a tournament next weekend. Thanks for all the input everyone!

[SpellArcher]

Flame of the Asuryan beat me to it.

Gem of Courage FTW!

"No-one expects the Gem of Courage!"

[Baerion]

I edited my list in the first post. I removed the Power stone from the AM and added the skeinsliver. I gave the Drakemaster the Gem of Courage and the Enchanted Shield. Hopefully the list is ready to go as I will be participating in a tournament this weekend where I will be in 4 games. Potential lists I will be facing include Orcs and Goblins, WoC, Dark Elves, Lizardmen, Wood Elves, High Elves, Empire and Tomb Kings. I'll make sure to get some battle reports up and hopefully I'll include some pictures. Since it is just a friendly I haven't gotten the entire army painted yet, but still on pace to have it ready to go by March for Adepticon.

Check back Sunday or Monday and I'll hopefully have the BR's done.

[Stormie]

Look forward to it, good luck!

[Baerion]

Well I finished the tournament last weekend in 1st place among 6 players ending the weekend at 3-0-1 vs WoC, Wood Elves, High Elves and Lizardmen. Check out my battle reports here: http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=30584

[Baerion]

I finally got around to posting up a Painting blog for this army. Check it out http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic. ... 63#p648663

[Baerion]

The rules for Adpeticon 2010 have been posted and unfortunately they dropped the point values to 2000 for the Fantasy Championships tournament. I have adjusted my list and wanted to see what you guys thought of it again. Those 250 points are really hurting but I'm still trying to make do.

Adepticon is also using the WPS system this year for comp.

Updated 11/13/09

Archmage- Seerstaff, Dispel Scroll, Skeinsliver - 335
Dragonmage- Ring of Fury, Silver Wand - 435
Noble- DA, Lance, Shield, Barded Steed, BSB, Battle Banner - 218

12 Archers - 132
20 Spears- M, Champion, Standard, Lion Standard - 230

5 Dragon Princes - M, Drakemaster (Gem of Courage), Standard - Banner of Sorcery - 260
1 Lion Chariot - 140

2 Repeater Bolt Throwers - 200
1 Great Eagle - 50

PD: 8+(D3)+1-3 for Dragon Mage + Bnd Spell
DD: 5 +1 scroll
Placements: 7

My WPS Score is: 3.71
Magic is -1400 (counting seerstaff, and ring of fury), BSB is -600 and Sun Dragon is -600. All of which are weighing me down fairly heavily.

[Baerion]

I have played 3 games with this new version and so far I am 2-0-1 with it. I played a friends WoC Demon Prince list and tabled him in the 4th turn, not sure what his WPS was. Then I played a friends Orcs and Goblins and since it was just a friendly I made a charge with my DP's and BB that I normally wouldn't have but it ended in a draw.

Last night I played my friend's Lizardmen. He had a comp score of 25 with mainly a bunch of saurus and scar vets. I managed a Minor Victory.

So far so good but I could really use some comments as I will be taking on some tough lists with such a small comp score.

[prelude_to_war]

Solid list - good to see you've already tried it out with success. The only thing I might suggest is dropping the archers to 10 and using the 22 points elsewhere Not sure where though. Perhaps another dispel scroll for the AM?

Will you be bidding aggressively when it comes to Battle Point Bidding given your list is pretty hard at 3.71?

[Baerion]

Current List: 2/9/10

Archmage - Lvl 4, Seerstaff of Sorcery, Skeinsliver, Dispel Scroll [335]
Dragon Mage - Lvl 2, Silver wand, Ring of Fury [435]
Noble - DA, Barded Steed, Enchanted Shield, Star Lance [157]

High Elf Spearmen (20) Champ, Musician and SB-Lion Standard - [230]
High Elf Archers (10) - [110]

Dragon Princes (5) - Champ, Musician, SB Banner of Sorcery [260]
Champ has Gem of Courage
Lion Chariot - [140]
Shadow Warriors (5) - [80]

Great Eagle - [50]
Repeater Bolt Thrower (2) - [200]

TOTAL - 1,997
WPS = 6.5 ( )

My magic phase really hurts my comp score with a -1400 if you include the items. As for your question Prelude_to_war I wasn't planning on doing any bidding. My list is very low comp, but I didn't choose the list to dominate I chose it because it is a lot of fun and I get to use the Dragon mage. I realize that my chances for best overall diminish greatly starting 20 points behind some people, but hopefully my sports and painting scores can bring me up quite a bit. I think the list is good but it struggles against armies with a lot of magic defense. I played a lizardmen friend of mine who had 3 scrolls and the diadem for a total of 7 dispel dice in turns 2-4. I couldn't do much to his Lizardmen army until I got past the scrolls and finally destroyed the diadem wielding skink. I also got a draw against my friend's Orcs and Goblins who took a lvl 4 and 2 lvl 2's as well as the rank bonus dispel dice banner. He also had an item that stole a power dice to use as dispel so he had 10 dispel dice. He created the list to stop my army and it definitely did.

[Baerion]

I recently played this army list against an empire list and a demon list. Both massacres for me! My friend played both of the armies. He is a new empire player and his list was:

Lvl 4 mage
Lvl 2 mage
BSB on foot with GW
Warrior Priest on foot

35 Swordsmen full command (BSB and lvl 4 in this unit)
`2 detachments one of 9 swordsmen and one of 10 crossbowmen
Great Cannon
Hellblaster
20 Flagellants
10 Handgunners
12 Great Swordsmen (lvl 2 and warrior priest in this unit)
`2 detachments one of 5 swordsmen and one of 5 shooting (can't remember)

That is all I can remember and likely pretty close to what he brought. The game was just a bunch of terrible dice rolls for him. He failed most of his casting attempts, miscast on 2 dice, rolled a 10" artillery dice with his cannon to only hit one model when he likely should have hit 8-10. All in all his dice just continually failed him the entire game and in the end I believe my archers were able to kill the last of his flagellants to completely wipe out his entire army. Some highlights for me was getting an irresistible Flames of the Phoenix off on his huge unit of swordsmen killing half of the unit the second turn and another quarter when he failed to dispel it.

We proxied my friends lizardmen as Demons as I had never played them before. I got this list off of the demon site as a potential demon list though it didn't seem that hard.

GUO - Trappings of Nurgle, Nurgling Infestation lvl 3 wizard
Nurgle BSB hearld on palanquin - Standard of Sundering

20 Plaguebearers
15 Bloodletters
15 Bloodletters
2 Beasts of Nurgle
3 Nurgling bases
5 Flesh Hounds
That's all I can remember.

This game wasn't going that well early on and my opponent forced (I just didn't have any other option) me to charge a unit of bloodletters and get flanked by his hounds or his hounds and get flanked by his letters. I figured I had to completely pop the unit if I wanted to save my unit of DP's and noble so I chose to hit the hounds. I rolled awesome and killed 3.5 of them which is 7 wounds! He only did one in return and rolled fairly high on his ld roll and popped. I was able to overrun and avoid the flank charge. The DP's ended up coming back and finishing off both units of bloodletters after magic and diminished them. My Dragon mage was huge in this game sending fire at the beasts of nurgle on every turn. He chose lore of fire on the standard of sundering so my DM only got 2 spells off per turn instead of 3 but that was ok because I rolled flaming sword, fiery blast and changed wall of fire to fireball. Again I was able to almost table him with a couple lucky BT shots at the GUO taking 5 wounds off and then getting 2 from my spears! Then a further 3 from him popping sent the GUO back to the chaos realm! The plaguebearers were whittled down by flames of the phoenix over several turns before they were finished off by my Lion Chariot and archers surprisingly.

So the list has been successful though I don't know how hard either of those lists were. Especially the empire one in which the game could have been much different had he rolled even a little better.

[prelude_to_war]

My magic phase really hurts my comp score with a -1400 if you include the items. As for your question Prelude_to_war I wasn't planning on doing any bidding. My list is very low comp, but I didn't choose the list to dominate I chose it because it is a lot of fun and I get to use the Dragon mage. I realize that my chances for best overall diminish greatly starting 20 points behind some people, but hopefully my sports and painting scores can bring me up quite a bit.

I like the list Baerion, but a comp score of 6.5 will affect your overall tournament strategy IMO. It will be hard to make those points back for best Overall so instead, you should be focusing on Best General with this list.

What does this mean? As I understand it you should bid 5 for every game and plan to beat the pants off of your opponents. This way you can make up in battle points what you lose in comp & theme with a hard 6.5 list.

[Baerion]

You may be right and it will definitely be something I'll look into. I'm entering the list into a similarly set up tourney coming up at the end of february. Hopefully I'll get an idea of how much the comp scores will effect the overall results.

I could always go back to the Battle Banner and comp score of 3.7 and really do some bidding. We'll see how the shadow warriors due come the end of February. I may switch back to the BB.

[Sythren]

Your army seems to be okay, pretty good, though probably not what I'd run if there was no comp scores. I've just got a few things I'm personally iffy on. I would agree with the Dragon Mage, though the Archmage, DROP THE SKEINSLIVER, I don't know if someone has noted this, it's twenty-five points that without it you could have two power stones, two more dispel scrolls (which you'll need if going against Vamps of Daemons depending.) or one of each. While the Skeinsliver is good, you're an Elite Army of Elves, you should be able to deploy everything before the other person, though you do have seven deployments, so it'll be debatable. I'm fine with the Gem Of Courage on the dragon princes, though if you ever go up against something your Barded Steed Noble can't fight like for instance, a dragon, you can go with the Helm of Fortune equivalent, it would give your Dragon Princes that extra chance of weathering an attack from almost anything but Blood Knights, Cannons, or Single Bolts. The Dragon Prince Champ goes from a sloppy two-up, to a one-up re-roll-able armor save, which will make any Daemon Lord have to make an effort to actually kill him in a challenge. And trust me, you probably shouldn't need the Gem Of Courage, though I can see why you have it. Only a charge from a Dragon, Shaggoth, , Blood Thirster, Blood Knight unit, or maybe a Black Knight unit would have your Knight's quake in their boots. The Core seems fine, the chariot is nice. The Shadow Warriors, great fluff unit, I love them. But the only real use for them is hunting war machines or lone casters. If you know you're going up against Tomb Kings, Orcs, Dark Elves, or other High Elves, then may Khaine guide your arrows and swords, but depending on if you're going to a big, highly known tournament, then expect to see lots of Heavy Armor, which may make your Shadow Warriors a tad useless, I'm sorry to say it, but it's true. If you drop the Shadow Warriors you can add the above recommended items to your Archmage and even pop in another Dragon Prince, making it that little bit harder to wipe them from the board. Your rare choices seem nice and solid, and you'd even have an extra thirteen points to which you could spend at your desire. I hope you take my tips and advice into consideration.

[Silver]

Reading your first battle report against that Dark elf (which simply shouldn't have lost with that much cheese of assassins and magic! hah)

'Taking out the familiar'

Hmm, the familiar is a model you cannot attack so I'm not sure what you're referring to here.
It cannot die, it is use every magic phase.