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Interesting questions from a document on the Laurëlornalim
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Author:  Elithmar [ Sun Feb 10, 2013 6:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Interesting questions from a document on the Laurëlornalim

When searching for information about the Laurëlornalim for a story I'm working on, I found this.

It is described in the introduction as being for WFRP. Now, does this make it official fluff? Or if not official, at least 'true'? Because that means a few interesting things. When reading it, I noticed this:

Quote:
No Elf is allowed to marry until they have reached physical maturity (at around 12 for females and 14 for males).


This is much younger than I've heard on this website. This is the same as in humans, whereas I'd heard it was about 100 for elves. Or is that not physical maturity, but just I suppose mental maturity? It seems a pretty long time to be basically a teenager though.

Also, there was this:

Quote:
They are also less prone to illness and disease, and generally live for a span of 220 years, though some are believed to be even older.


I think this is again a bit younger than I've heard before.

Finally, this could be some evidence for the 'sexuality of elves' discussion that there was a while ago here:

Quote:
Single-sex marriages are permitted, but those involved are usually spoken to by an Elder as a matter of course, as the marriage will be barren.


So is this all true? Most of the rest I'd like to take as true, because it's all the semi-official information I could find about the Laurëlornalim.

Author:  Aicanor [ Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Interesting questions from a document on the Laurëlornalim

I am not very familiar with WFRP stuff but this seems to be "unofficial" lore (good find by the way, very detailed). The lifespan doesn't add up with what we have in HE sources, but is, I believe, in correspondence with D&D elf lore.
(Full?) physical maturity at 12 or 14 - that would actually mean they reach it earlier than Humans. :shock: It is possible, WE are barbarians after all. And the happy couple can think better of it next spring and separate again. :lol:

Quote:
Single-sex marriages are permitted, but those involved are usually spoken to by an Elder as a matter of course, as the marriage will be barren.
I don't see this ever being explicitly resolved in official GW lore.

Author:  Giladis [ Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Interesting questions from a document on the Laurëlornalim

That thing is ancient writen in the early '90. It is not official in any way and quite a bit out of sinc with current GW background.

Author:  Aicanor [ Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Interesting questions from a document on the Laurëlornalim

This is my favourite quote so far... :D

Quote:
Dwarfs are famed for their engineering, for their steady, measured precision. Elves aren't. There is a good reason for this: Elves don't naturally think in quantities. Whilst they are numerate, the idea of counting things, measuring things up, dividing and quantifying just doesn't seem right to them.
As a result, only small numbers get used on a regular basis. Elves like numbers up to three; they often use four and five in their daily lives. But anything much above seven, and they prefer to resort to analogy instead.

Author:  Andrew_uk [ Sun Feb 10, 2013 9:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Interesting questions from a document on the Laurëlornalim

Aicanor wrote:
This is my favourite quote so far... :D

Quote:
Dwarfs are famed for their engineering, for their steady, measured precision. Elves aren't. There is a good reason for this: Elves don't naturally think in quantities. Whilst they are numerate, the idea of counting things, measuring things up, dividing and quantifying just doesn't seem right to them.
As a result, only small numbers get used on a regular basis. Elves like numbers up to three; they often use four and five in their daily lives. But anything much above seven, and they prefer to resort to analogy instead.


So when it comes to fighting with High Elves my maths degree was for nothing?

Nevermind at least next time I bring Book of Hoeth on a Shadow Archmage I can have fun with this. Roll the winds of magic; "so you have 5 dice and I have lots - lets look at an analogy... I could have 9, I could have 15... I prefer not to get to specifics with these matters until I have fewer than 4 dice left in my pool"

Author:  Giladis [ Sun Feb 10, 2013 11:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Interesting questions from a document on the Laurëlornalim

The proper way would be - "You have as many dice as Imrik had falcons while I get the white pride of Chrace" :mrgreen:

Author:  Elithmar [ Mon Feb 11, 2013 5:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Interesting questions from a document on the Laurëlornalim

Indeed, I thought that was a good part.

Giladis wrote:
That thing is ancient writen in the early '90. It is not official in any way and quite a bit out of sinc with current GW background.


Any major points you can think of that are out of date? I like to have an up-to-date idea of what the Laurëlornalim are like.

Thanks. :)

Author:  Giladis [ Mon Feb 11, 2013 5:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Interesting questions from a document on the Laurëlornalim

Almost everything in that document is made up. Official GW background is this - There are Elves in Laurelorn forest, they don't like traspassers, they are Wood Elves but probably not Asrai and there is a glass city somewhere in its borders - and that is it.

Author:  Elithmar [ Mon Feb 11, 2013 5:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Interesting questions from a document on the Laurëlornalim

Oh dear, that's not much. However, it means I can make some stuff up. :)

Author:  Aethyr [ Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Interesting questions from a document on the Laurëlornalim

Andrew_uk wrote:
Aicanor wrote:
This is my favourite quote so far... :D

Quote:
Dwarfs are famed for their engineering, for their steady, measured precision. Elves aren't. There is a good reason for this: Elves don't naturally think in quantities. Whilst they are numerate, the idea of counting things, measuring things up, dividing and quantifying just doesn't seem right to them.
As a result, only small numbers get used on a regular basis. Elves like numbers up to three; they often use four and five in their daily lives. But anything much above seven, and they prefer to resort to analogy instead.

Lol that's just too good!
So when it comes to fighting with High Elves my maths degree was for nothing?

Nevermind at least next time I bring Book of Hoeth on a Shadow Archmage I can have fun with this. Roll the winds of magic; "so you have 5 dice and I have lots - lets look at an analogy... I could have 9, I could have 15... I prefer not to get to specifics with these matters until I have fewer than 4 dice left in my pool"

Author:  Andrew_uk [ Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Interesting questions from a document on the Laurëlornalim

I did read somewhere how Orcs count.

1
2
few
few more
more
lots
lots more
too many

Basically are we on a parr with Orcs? Or are we just slightly better than them because we waffle around giving an answer trough the medium of a poetic sounding analogy?

Also wouldn't you hate to be an elven maths teacher... some young elf puts his hand up 'why do we always get word questions?'

'Because your in big school now and there is a hope that one day some of you might progress to study magic for which I'm afraid this is a prerequisite... now a farmer in Ellyrion is able to grow enough grain to feed a small village, if he were to share that with another village in Hoeth how many swordmasters would it take to protect the carts required to transport it?'

Author:  Elithmar [ Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Interesting questions from a document on the Laurëlornalim

I think the idea is that they can't count, whereas we can't be bothered.

Author:  Andrew_uk [ Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Interesting questions from a document on the Laurëlornalim

Elithmar of Lothern wrote:
I think the idea is that they can't count, whereas we can't be bothered.


Lol! - "shall we count out these swords for the battle tomorrow?"

"meh - I can't be bothered to be honest with you, it looks enough"

"But what if it's not? What if many elves are left without weapons to defend themselves against the rampaging Dwarves? What if they have no choice but to flee?"

"well, to be honest... then it would look like they couldn't be bothered"

Author:  Aicanor [ Mon Feb 11, 2013 11:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Interesting questions from a document on the Laurëlornalim

Every Elf has to bring his/her own sword, no need to count them. :D

While I like the spirit of the "it is not right to measure everything by quantity" attitude, this actually can't apply to a race constructing highly accurate ballistic weapons and navigating the seas.
But who needs to know how many trees there are in the forest?

Author:  Elithmar [ Tue Feb 12, 2013 5:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Interesting questions from a document on the Laurëlornalim

Maybe they do count things, but prefer to use similes to describe those numbers.

Author:  Elithmar [ Tue Feb 12, 2013 7:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Interesting questions from a document on the Laurëlornalim

Is the naming thing in here right? Bear in mind it could be different for the Laurëlornalim.

It says a first name is chosen by the parents, and a second is chosen by the actual elf. The second is the one they use, and it may change.

Author:  Giladis [ Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Interesting questions from a document on the Laurëlornalim

As I said (almost) everything in there is made up. I went to check and that thing is from 1994.

Author:  Asurion Whitestar [ Tue Feb 12, 2013 11:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Interesting questions from a document on the Laurëlornalim

Giladis wrote:
As I said (almost) everything in there is made up. I went to check and that thing is from 1994.

That means it's.. One .. Two .. Three .. Four .. Five.. .. Ehh a while ago..
It's as old as a handful of Cothique sand as though each grain was a sunset.


Shadowblade for instance is about 200 years old and that's considered very young for an elf.

I always saw elves as physically maturing at the same rate as humans, while (initially) mentally maturing quicker, but basically staying young adults (human age 18-23) for a few decades, then adulthood for a few centuries, obviously gaining knowledge and more maturity along the way.

Author:  Musashi [ Wed Feb 13, 2013 7:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Interesting questions from a document on the Laurëlornalim

Problem with Elves is that most of it is guesswork. Natural selection should have ensured that a faster maturation took place than suggested, since requiring the adults to protect their progeny from harm for a century or more is asking quite a lot, assuming they have insufficient self-defense capacity of their own. It would have turned Elven culture paranoid, and in the case of our Dark cousins, probably extinct.

What you'll have is a slow down to reaching puberty, and then probably a growth spurt to young adolescence, the age of majority would probably be in reaching their first or second century.

Going by Tolkien, Hobbits probably hit twenty-one by their thirty third year.

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