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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 8:55 am 
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I have reread the topic and only thing I can say that the scenario you are trying to create in the confines of the Warhammer World requiers the intervention of aliens space bats (ASB if you are familliar with AltHistory terminology).

For no apparent reason a civilisation (Empire) that is only slightly more progressive than the Dwarfs suddenly has a technological quantom leap that goes against their core beliefs.

To try and visualise my point.

Based on the background The Empire knew how to make blackpowder since the time of Sigmar.

Earliest atested mention of various blackpowder weapons:
Pistol, Handgun, Cannon - Ravages of Gorthor (1520 I.C.)
Volley Gun, Repeater Handgun - Waaagh Gorbad (1707 I.C.)
Steam Tank - (2035 I.C.)
Mortar - Great Chaos Incursion (2302 I.C.)

Now I have to get my hands on Dead Winter to see if the blackpowder weapons are pushed even further into the past.

The thing is progress in the Empire is very, very slow and their mindset does not support an "industrial revolution" recquiered for your setting.


As a fellow writer I would advise to start reshaping the warhammer world long before your story takes place for it to become plausible for Warhammer fans, for at the moment it lacks the suspension of disbelief and look more like you want to shoot fish in the barrel. Create a paralel universe because evoultion of the current setting to what you want is highly unlikely at best and down right impossible at worst.



As for Beastmen/Greenskins tactics, they do not just charge at you, it is just most popular because in the current setting works more often than not. Background has multiple exaples of both Beastmen/Greenskins leaders setting ambushes, avoiding unfavourable battles and biding their time until they can strike to win.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 7:47 pm 
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Giladis wrote:
I have reread the topic and only thing I can say that the scenario you are trying to create in the confines of the Warhammer World requiers the intervention of aliens space bats (ASB if you are familliar with AltHistory terminology).

For no apparent reason a civilisation (Empire) that is only slightly more progressive than the Dwarfs suddenly has a technological quantom leap that goes against their core beliefs.

To try and visualise my point.

Based on the background The Empire knew how to make blackpowder since the time of Sigmar.

Earliest atested mention of various blackpowder weapons:
Pistol, Handgun, Cannon - Ravages of Gorthor (1520 I.C.)
Volley Gun, Repeater Handgun - Waaagh Gorbad (1707 I.C.)
Steam Tank - (2035 I.C.)
Mortar - Great Chaos Incursion (2302 I.C.)

Now I have to get my hands on Dead Winter to see if the blackpowder weapons are pushed even further into the past.

The thing is progress in the Empire is very, very slow and their mindset does not support an "industrial revolution" recquiered for your setting.


As a fellow writer I would advise to start reshaping the warhammer world long before your story takes place for it to become plausible for Warhammer fans, for at the moment it lacks the suspension of disbelief and look more like you want to shoot fish in the barrel. Create a paralel universe because evoultion of the current setting to what you want is highly unlikely at best and down right impossible at worst.



As for Beastmen/Greenskins tactics, they do not just charge at you, it is just most popular because in the current setting works more often than not. Background has multiple exaples of both Beastmen/Greenskins leaders setting ambushes, avoiding unfavourable battles and biding their time until they can strike to win.


Cheers


I disagree with your point about the situation is impossable, in fact i would say it was inevtable if GM was willing to advance the plot by a couple centures.


Look at are world for my point, and forgive me but were going to go into the history of gun powder for a little bit, Arquebus was first used in by king Matthias Corvinus Every fourth soldier in his Black Army (1458–1494 AD) had an arquebus in the infantry, and every fifth regarding the whole army, (unusual ratio at the time. But bare with me) muskets were invented later, but not much later. The musekts first use was as a special anit armor weapon, so it coexisted with the arqubus with the peroid 1550 – 1650.


For example, from 1636 the complement of the Spanish infantry company, in Flanders, was 200 men, 11 officers, 30 musketeers, 60 arqubusiers, 65 pikemen with body armour, 34 pikemen without armour.

Lets put that in out context: the empire does not spend a lot of time fighting armored enemys true, but! The existence of Dragons, ogres, Spawn and who knows what else, would requre the same answerer, you need a larger heavyer weapon to take them down better so in this situation it would make sense for the Empire to devlop muskets.

Back in are world; Almost all muskets in this period were fired by the matchlock mechanism, where a length of smouldering rope ignited the gunpowder in the weapon's pan, causing the musket ball to be fired out of the barrel. An alternative to the matchlock in the earlier period was the wheellock mechanism. The matchlock had several disadvantages due to it being slow to reload and the occasional accidental ignition of gunpowder stores.

The Dwarfs make heavy use of the Wheel lock i belive, this is one of the reasons, along with rifleing that make dwarf guns so much better. Now, the dwarfs have three options for there rifleing, either they use swagging, where they force the bullet down there rifles so it gets groves, whitworth style, where the bullet is inscribed with the rifleing so it twists as it goes down the barrel,or miniballs.

Miniballs are the best option since your A: not forceing a larger bullet down a smaller barrle (swagging) or B: gets so cloged with powder that you can't load it after the fourth shot (whitworth) so lets presume dwarfs, no fools are they, have mini balls.

Combine these two technolgoys, empire heavy muskts to take down big monsters, and dwarf rifleing and you have the rifle musket. Now while it can be argued that the musket used by say neopolan were the end point of a couple hundard years of devlopment, there were just improvement to the design to make them easyer to use and handel so you don't need a big fireing sticke to use it. Safe to argue that such a design is quite likely given the number of insane inventors in the empire, (more on that luncy in a second)

It was not until the 17th centruy that arquebus were phased out in, so from the black army to that is 200 years of Arquebus usage. Now the empires more like a thousand years, but that makes sense. Remember: there under diffrent pressures then we were at the same time. Where as for us the answer is: built a better gun, for the empire it could be, train a better mage.

And you must also remember: the empire has inventors who can make a gaint mechanical horse and that shoots lighting! I frankly have no clue (other then GM) why the empire does not already have all this stuff, gattlings, iron clads, steam technology, all of it! Should be easy as all heck for them.


So lets take a step back and plot out a situation where this technogy comes about, some empire inventor, one less insane then most has goten his hands on a dwarf hand gun, likely bought it, and some powder and shot.

Rifleing is known to the empire (hockland long rifle) yet the bullets are odd, smaller then the barrel yet they have this cavaty on the back, and there not round, but concical. Then it hits him, the powder forces the back of it to expand into the rifleing. A few nights of insane sketching follow as he design the new empire rifle musket,,, he looks back at the dwarf gun and adds a flint lock to it.

Boom, rifle musket.

Gattlings are a bit harder to explain.

Gattlings are relent on the precusion cap to fire there bullet, once you have that the rest is all springs and turning it, nothing harder then what a empire clock maker can already make.

Lets go back to the dwarfs, in my army book it just says in the dwarf hand gun section,“And more reliable fireing mechanismS” there is more then one methoid to set a gun off.

Let say they use all three of the more advance methoids, wheelock, flintlock, and percussion lock. (yes, i'm ignoreing snap locks, but lump then with flint locks only there more complex)

Of the three the dwarfs like Wheel locks the best, (My grand fathered, grand father used it!) are ambvlent about flint lock, (Ok, I guess, it's better, easyer to use maybe, but my Grandfather used a Wheel lock!) and HATE precussion caps, (Let me get this stright, to make this, you need to use a highly posionious, dangerious chemical, (Mercury(II) fulminate) and it's new fangled? PASS!)

then are estrangled Dwarf Engineer goes to the empire trying to find a buyer for his caps. He finds it with a empire clock maker who has been struggling with his idea for his gun to make war obsolate, (a idea the dwarf finds silly, but he likes the idea of a super gun).

The dwarf combins the cap, powder, primer and bullet to make the first fully incased cartage, which his clockmaker friend uses to make his gattling equivlent, they show it to the army and, THIS IS KEY! They love the idea.

They don't rejected it like the US army did for ammuntion issues, which were good reasons, they took the idea and RAN with it.

All the elments are around the empire, mostly from the dwarfs, but there all there and they have to do is them together, steam power from the dwarfs for example to make ironclads.

Again: the only reason the empire does not have all this is GM and the need to keep the empire a playable faction, when the whole planet should be steam punk by the ammount of time that has gone by and the ammount of higher tech devlopments around them.

All it takes is the proper mind to put them together.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 9:23 pm 
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Hussites used firearms. And they used crossbows that were at least equally effective at that time. The idea had been here long before that. But to have keys to a technology and actually use it are two different things. There has to be need for it so it becomes more than a toy for creative minds, and resources. You will not have excessive steam technology without access to large amounts of coal, no matter how much is known about the technology.
This is fantasy world and I am quite glad there is little of these accomplishments of technological progress, but I still think that if you insist, the requirements can be met. Of course it is good to bear in mind there are other powers to balance it out and other ways of progress our civilisation didn't take. I think that in this case Chaos (not perhaps the Beasts - forests would be destroyed for need of firewood and other needs if the progress you discuss would happen), but Chaos Warriors would adapt very quickly, for they are a mirror image of the people of the Empire (at least in my mind). Chaos by its nature would embrace the changes and adapt to it. Make the line to 40k if you will.

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...so lets presume dwarfs, no fools are they, have mini balls.
Why not? I will grant them that.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 10:28 pm 
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about Hussites: well i was just goin what the wiki said so i'm likely a moron in that regard.

as for coal: it likely been mostly untapped up till now, so there easily thousands of tons of the stuff in the empire, they can exploate failing that they can always buy some from the dwarfs, and who knows what new mines exist in beast man turff, as i may ahve stated this drive of teh empire to clear forests of industy is what prevokes the beast men to really attack this time. some could agure the empire is the aggresior here, if they ignore the last thousand years of beastman Raiding and destroying.

As for choas, ones needs to consider about whos going to be the agent for choas?

the beastman have one more hurrah in them before there crushed and there forests are fed to the blast fernece, and there too choatic to get and use the kind of weapons to match the empire.

The north men? at first tehy seem ideal, but they suffer from the same flaws as the beast man, there too chotic and proud to be able to match the empire, for now. one must remember from denmark, sweden and norway have come many find miltary men and leaders. but, choas by its very nature is chaotic, the north men would be unable to fight in the orginized linens of the empire, for what is chaotic about a line of men just standing and blasting away? it would be counter to there very nature as teh chosen of the gods.

but! things get intresting if we clock ahead a little bit. let this new world cook a little bit and we see the devlopment of bolt action rifles, and eventuly assult rifles. wtih displined formation needed less as the tactcis advances the chotic north men suddenly become a much more viable threat, and there chotic nature plays to there advanatage now.

So of the big ticket names in choas who's left? the Skaven have similar issues to the norse men, and as stated once skaven get warpstone fueled AK and every one can kill every one else, strength becoming irelevent, the under empire imploads for a couple hundard years.

that leaves, the choas dwafs and with the fall of the elven fortress of dawn that was blocakdeing them in place, they suddenly have the whole world open to them. they will be playing the roll of choas in the world now and are a major threat to the empire.

the orks and lizardmen are a non factor until there latant genes (Set by the old ones) kick in and they start useing technology as well. but that is well down the road from this story (say 600 years)

More imeditly, maybe even factoring in this is the rise of teh Ogre nation. as the emprie breaks teh back of elven naval dominace, more trade starts happening between the empire and Carthy, by sea. as teh carvans get thin on teh ground before going extinct Greasus Goldtooth's is now looking at the collapse of the Ogre kingdoms, so what to do?

well if the gold won't come to you, go to the gold! the ogre kingdoms becomes, the ogre empire and they start trying to expand in to the empire, and some go to Carthy,.

i should note i don't have a copy of the Ogre kingdom armybook yet desipite my, best efforts on the subject so for now the ogre kingdom stuff still iffy, but i think it works good.

in basic, those on the threats, (out side of the elves high, dark, and wood, and the other human nations) the empire and others have to be concnercered with.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 11:22 pm 
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Unless you get the dark elves or lizardmen to give you potatos I don't see where you get the population explosion you'd need.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 11:58 pm 
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Shannar, Sealord wrote:
Unless you get the dark elves or lizardmen to give you potatos I don't see where you get the population explosion you'd need.


Potatos? i think that they have been exploreing the new world long enough by now to find potatos.

and yes, for the empies ambitions there are a bit small populated. but as stated, they can do more with a smaller force, and as sated, this does come back to bite them.

for a real world example: the british empire, despite being the single largest empire ever seen, had a reltivly small standing army.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 4:28 pm 
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I concure with what you are saying how such a thing could come about but you are missing the gist of my post.

It is without doubt that anything GM decides can happen. What I am trying to tell you is that the Empire has the technology of Hellblasters Volley Guns and Repeater Handguns for at least 710 years. That is just 200 years less than the entire history of firearms in our world. Progress in Warhammer World is really, really slow and that is what you have to get around to produce your story. The mechanical horse is nothing special in the Warhammer World since Dwarfs have been producing such toys since before the War of the Beard, in other words for thousands of years. The point is that technology is not accepted by the people of the Empire, and those that dabble with it are seen as insane and dangerous to the community.

Also the Empire is a feudal society and inventors to experiment need patrons, the current Emperor has the wisdom to do so but even he isn't that far sighted and the leading members of the school of engineering hamper the atempts of younger members to experiment to much and to far, there was even a WD article a few years back talking about that.

At the rate technology advances in WHFB world it would take millennia rather than a few centuries to achieve what you want to show. In addition you need to get either people less religious (a bad idea in WHFB) or to somehow get two strongest cults (Sigmar and Ulric) to support the evolution of firearms and advancement of technology.


dragonkingofthestars wrote:
Remember: there under diffrent pressures then we were at the same time. Where as for us the answer is: built a better gun, for the empire it could be, train a better mage.


Not in the Empire, since all wizards were hunted down as agents of Chaos untill the last 200 years and even today they are distrusted. The anwser in the Empire since its founding for any new hardship is "band together, trust in Sigmar and hope for the best".



To get the message clear. I am not saying that gatling gun, monitors, ironclads and rifle regiments are impossible but your would have to make a serious re-imagening of the WHFB world with the POD several centuries back from the current date rather than evolving from where it stands now.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 5:34 pm 
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Progress in Warhammer World is really, really slow and that is what you have to get around to produce your story. The mechanical horse is nothing special in the Warhammer World since Dwarfs have been producing such toys since before the War of the Beard, in other words for thousands of years. The point is that technology is not accepted by the people of the Empire, and those that dabble with it are seen as insane and dangerous to the community.


The best example of this is still probably the steam tank. They don't even remember how to make them. Knowledge tends to stay with the person who developed it, rather then being passed on. This makes progress painfully slow, and often backwards. Without changing the entire character of the Empire it's hard to see rapid innovation regardless of the benefits.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 9:49 pm 
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They need to keep the world in the desirable fantasy state. But look at all what happened in last 200 years (in real world). The "progress" can be very quick if circumstances are right. It doesn't have to, of course. I do not neccessarily agree with the way this story treats the world, but there certainly is room to develop such a storyline, if in 300, 500 or 1000 years of "alternate history" is not that important in my eyes.
But I still think all this impressive machinery is sweetly vulnerable to the tiniest amount of magic used in the right place.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 10:59 pm 
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Giladis wrote:
I concure with what you are saying how such a thing could come about but you are missing the gist of my post.

It is without doubt that anything GM decides can happen. What I am trying to tell you is that the Empire has the technology of Hellblasters Volley Guns and Repeater Handguns for at least 710 years. That is just 200 years less than the entire history of firearms in our world. Progress in Warhammer World is really, really slow and that is what you have to get around to produce your story. The mechanical horse is nothing special in the Warhammer World since Dwarfs have been producing such toys since before the War of the Beard, in other words for thousands of years. The point is that technology is not accepted by the people of the Empire, and those that dabble with it are seen as insane and dangerous to the community.

Also the Empire is a feudal society and inventors to experiment need patrons, the current Emperor has the wisdom to do so but even he isn't that far sighted and the leading members of the school of engineering hamper the atempts of younger members to experiment to much and to far, there was even a WD article a few years back talking about that.

At the rate technology advances in WHFB world it would take millennia rather than a few centuries to achieve what you want to show. In addition you need to get either people less religious (a bad idea in WHFB) or to somehow get two strongest cults (Sigmar and Ulric) to support the evolution of firearms and advancement of technology.


dragonkingofthestars wrote:
Remember: there under diffrent pressures then we were at the same time. Where as for us the answer is: built a better gun, for the empire it could be, train a better mage.


Not in the Empire, since all wizards were hunted down as agents of Chaos untill the last 200 years and even today they are distrusted. The anwser in the Empire since its founding for any new hardship is "band together, trust in Sigmar and hope for the best".



To get the message clear. I am not saying that gatling gun, monitors, ironclads and rifle regiments are impossible but your would have to make a serious re-imagening of the WHFB world with the POD several centuries back from the current date rather than evolving from where it stands now.


Cheers


ah! put that way i see what you mean, and again i disagree about speed.

look at the industrial revolution, compare life at the start off it, to the end of it, in just 100 years everything had changed, suddenly we have a new textile industy, new Metallurgy, Mining, steam power, new Chemicals, new machines, glass, paper, gas lighting. life for the common people is radicle diffrent.

while at the same time compare the years 1550 and 1650? not much has changed for most people. the Industeral revoltuion is starting to go full force in the empire and everything is going to change faster then ever for them,, but just as fast as it did for us.

As for technolgoy being view as insane? That is a cultural view and i request some additional information on that. But given the sort of gimicks the Empire engineers work on i understand why. I can only answer that once engineers get off there rears and start makeing Practical simple things that view will change, i mean, compared to the horse how hard is a spining machine?

When mentioned the mechanical horse it was in exasperation, this thing is a marvel true, but honeslty,, gattling guns are EASYER to make a clock maker could make one, the point i was makeing was, they can do THIS but can't make a simple rifle musket? Even with all the bits an pieces lying around them? Its not that hard! Specaily if you look at the Dwarfs! (can i have a copy of the WD article? even withr you older member hampering younger ones (which honestly I'm not supprised at) these things should be simple. After all, if your a big wig engineer with arrogent that you know everything, who are you going to snap down on? The guy with the fancy musket? Or the one working with tesla coils?

Wizard: o ya, i forgot that that part of there histroy, but that just makes it even odder they have not gotten a higher tech level. With as many engineers there are there should be countless inventions floating around.

Shannar, Sealord wrote:
The best example of this is still probably the steam tank. They don't even remember how to make them. Knowledge tends to stay with the person who developed it, rather then being passed on. This makes progress painfully slow, and often backwards. Without changing the entire character of the Empire it's hard to see rapid innovation regardless of the benefits.


the steam tank is a complex monstosity of doubtful battle feild effetivness. Its a placaderm, strong perhapes, but ultmatly out paced. You don't need such a complex obmination of iron and pipeing to make the empire a threat. Simple rifle muskets and gattlings that every clock maker can understand.

Additionaly: a simple decree from the emperore would solve that propblem of knowledge staying with the creator.

Emperor Otto Grisden wrote:
It shall be done, that all national engineers shall comite a copy of all blue prients, designs, out lines to a national archive.the submited designs must be proven acurate as compared to the engineers master lest he forfit his patronage. Any man found useing the designs of engineer with out priear approval, as long as the inventor or the inventors next of kin live.


so ya, now engineers can play copy right shanagines on each other but that could solve the issues of engineers hording infromation, though again: i doubt it will be needed for the very simple things like a rifle musket that any farmer can undestand.

Aicanor wrote:
They need to keep the world in the desirable fantasy state. But look at all what happened in last 200 years (in real world). The "progress" can be very quick if circumstances are right. It doesn't have to, of course. I do not neccessarily agree with the way this story treats the world, but there certainly is room to develop such a storyline, if in 300, 500 or 1000 years of "alternate history" is not that important in my eyes.
But I still think all this impressive machinery is sweetly vulnerable to the tiniest amount of magic used in the right place.


yes that i smy view and it's not like Karl Franz is jumping right into teh war, and we need to keep some things in mind: it's not like the emperore has cruise missles (Hale rockets maybe) they have, steam ironcalds, (made with dwarf help) rifle muskets, gattling guns, the knowlege how to use them, the will to use them, and a fair degree of arogence. these are not complex things (steam power side aside they get a lot of dwarf help, remmber they end up severing all ties with Ulthan a few decades before the war proper, and the dwarfs really like that) I think I have a resonalbe ammount of time for this.

things will get far more advance as the story proggess (nothing helps technoogy along like a war) and i will likely throw in a empire citzen who exprences this,, maybe i'll make him a Luddite,,, a Choas luddite,, humm, inersting options for a story there.

EDIT: also coul dyou provide a example of a machine being "Sweetly vanrable" to magic? that kind of what i was looking for back during hte whole beastman argument a few posts back?


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 7:54 pm 
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Every complex thing is vulnerable, not only to magic. You do not need to destroy the machine with magic, but only a part of it. You need to understand how it works, but it should not be a problem in this case. Elves may not use this kind of machinery, but they will know the principles, or learn them soon. Not sure about Orcs or Beastmen, they will most likely use raw power to destroy the enemy, even with magic.
And if you do it well, something like steam engine can be very dangerous to the very side that brought them.

This means ships and vehicles have to be warded against magic. Against high magic this may not prove too effective though. Weapon's weakest point tends to be the man that holds it, unfortunately. But if you make the weapon non-functional, what will he do?

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 10:06 pm 
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Aicanor wrote:
Every complex thing is vulnerable, not only to magic. You do not need to destroy the machine with magic, but only a part of it. You need to understand how it works, but it should not be a problem in this case. Elves may not use this kind of machinery, but they will know the principles, or learn them soon. Not sure about Orcs or Beastmen, they will most likely use raw power to destroy the enemy, even with magic.
And if you do it well, something like steam engine can be very dangerous to the very side that brought them.

This means ships and vehicles have to be warded against magic. Against high magic this may not prove too effective though. Weapon's weakest point tends to be the man that holds it, unfortunately. But if you make the weapon non-functional, what will he do?


you say a machien vulerable to magic, but i still fail to see how a machien is any more or less vanerable to magic then anything else.

so, how would a high elf mage use his magic to deal with a say gattling gun spraying into the flanks of his force, wiht out useing magic to destroy it, (or he becomes a big target for empire snipers)


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 10:31 pm 
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It is more about the power that needs to be applied. Magic with its range makes it much easier and safer to do some sabotage. Why wait for battle if you can do this subtly?
As I said, weakest part of a weapon in battle tends to be the crew, unfortunately.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 5:29 am 
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Aicanor wrote:
It is more about the power that needs to be applied. Magic with its range makes it much easier and safer to do some sabotage. Why wait for battle if you can do this subtly?
As I said, weakest part of a weapon in battle tends to be the crew, unfortunately.


how so again? can you provide a non flashy (no lighting bolts or anything that atracts attention to the mage, AKA signals him out for a sniper) of how a mage can counter a machine on a battle feild?

also: and more importantly in the short temrs I want to check if my knowlegd of the shiftin isles (location for all the ulthan naval action for a fair while) is correct.

I see it as massive archipelago, (funny word that) that has lots, and lots of small islands that ships can manover, duck around, come out from behind, ambush, ectra, ecra. the islands (because they drift) tend to be fairly close to each other and though there big islands are out lined in the HE army book there are much more small islands in between.

The climite: rougly tropical (given how far south Ulthan) but the planet life have propertys of a temperate forest give these islands can wander into much colder norther waters wild life is the same, tropcial and temperate propertys.

so is thsi a acurate view of the islands? or am i wrong some how? also: should we rename this thead it's been three pages scine we talked about the glittering tower?


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 2:53 pm 
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dragonkingofthestars wrote:
how so again? can you provide a non flashy (no lighting bolts or anything that atracts attention to the mage, AKA signals him out for a sniper) of how a mage can counter a machine on a battle feild?

There is no 100% correct answer to this. But it is quite safe to assume that all spells that qualify as hexes (or augments) can be cast without fireworks (unless you are a mage or elf and have mage sight to see winds of magic).
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also: and more importantly in the short temrs I want to check if my knowlegd of the shiftin isles (location for all the ulthan naval action for a fair while) is correct.
I see it as massive archipelago, (funny word that) that has lots, and lots of small islands that ships can manover, duck around, come out from behind, ambush, ectra, ecra. the islands (because they drift) tend to be fairly close to each other and though there big islands are out lined in the HE army book there are much more small islands in between.

It also has monsters, shifting underwater rocks, mists and something like mag(net)ic anomalies (extremely hard to keep a course there).

Quote:
The climite: rougly tropical (given how far south Ulthan) but the planet life have propertys of a temperate forest give these islands can wander into much colder norther waters wild life is the same, tropcial and temperate propertys.

Temperate, maritime climate. It is not so far south really.

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should we rename this thead it's been three pages scine we talked about the glittering tower?

It is not neccessary, I think.

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Last edited by Aicanor on Fri Aug 31, 2012 5:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 4:45 pm 
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Bond... James Bond
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Some time back, in the late '90 the shifting isles were described as being the same as Yvresse, and Yvresse is covered in Caniferous forests so it is either warm and dry, or cold and dry. When you consider Yvresse is the land of mist I would opt for the second.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 7:56 pm 
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I'll keep the climate in mind, but did i get the lay out and aspect of the islands right?


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