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PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 4:08 pm 
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This may be kind of a noob question but what's the average lifetime of an elf.Also am I right in thinking that the reason that the levy was made was because the Dragons became rarer.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 7:31 pm 
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IIRC, from 2000-2500 years of age. My guess is that mages live a little longer, up to 3000. There is core descriptions of elves in periods of stasis for thousands of years from magical accidents that have allowed them to outlive that period, though that may be my memory running off of non-canon material, as I'm away from book right now.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 3:02 am 
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Your right about the mage I'l take this from codex word for word"17th year into Caradreyel Aevin Thornchanter turns himeself into a narinocha plant while attempting to harness the wind of Ghyran, 167th year of Tethlis Alaesir Greydawn finally unravels the magic binding aevin Thornchanter into plant form. the pair then use their combined learning to produce a wine fermented from juiced narinocha pods,that proves highly popular in the courts of Ulthuan."So their were 587 years left in Caradreyel reign and a 167 years into Tethlis is reign for a total of 757 or some where around there.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 10:52 am 
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draxynnic wrote:
Regular raids by Druchii and Chaos forces when not facing outright invasion, when the fluff that mentions virtually empty cities implying that people are stretched thing across the land they're trying to defend? I'd say that they're under military pressure.


Nah. That's true for the Shadowlands and maybe Cothique as well, but when was the last time the Inner Kingdoms were even threatened? The Great War Against Chaos. That's the only example of any invader entering the Inner Kingdoms since the Sundering itself.

As such, I don't think that excuse for High Elf population decline works. As far as I can see, either you say the ABs are exaggerating and the High Elves aren't in population decline at all, or you make a hand-wave to explain how it could happen. My favourite hand-wave, as I believe I mentioned, is 'planned obsolescence scheme put there by the Old Ones'; because the decline makes no sense from an evolutionary perspective at all, and the Old Ones and Slann are already established to be jerks, so it's at least in character for them to screw over an entire race for no real reason. They've done it canonically once before. The High Elf population decline is much the same as the earthquakes along the World's Edge for the dwarfs, causing the Goblin Wars; the Slann decided to wipe them out. Why? I don't know. For the lulz, I guess. That seems to be the primary motivation behind most of the Old Ones' and Slann's actions.

lathian wrote:
IIRC, from 2000-2500 years of age.


That doesn't sound right to me. Looking at elves known to have died of old age (e.g. Caradryel, Bel-Korhadris), I'd guess maybe 1500 years at the absolute most.

I also like that figure because it tallies with 40k Eldar, who canonically live for around a thousand years, give or take a few centuries from individual to individual. As they're to all intents and purposes the same race, I would find it very strange if the pre-industrial savages whose greatest technological achievement is a torsion-powered bolt thrower live twice as long as the enlightened, hyper-advanced space people who can blow up planets build giant space-faring habitats, and violate the law of conservation of energy on a daily basis.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 4:36 pm 
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FVC wrote:
That doesn't sound right to me. Looking at elves known to have died of old age (e.g. Caradryel, Bel-Korhadris), I'd guess maybe 1500 years at the absolute most.

I also like that figure because it tallies with 40k Eldar, who canonically live for around a thousand years, give or take a few centuries from individual to individual. As they're to all intents and purposes the same race, I would find it very strange if the pre-industrial savages whose greatest technological achievement is a torsion-powered bolt thrower live twice as long as the enlightened, hyper-advanced space people who can blow up planets build giant space-faring habitats, and violate the law of conservation of energy on a daily basis.


The Eldar don't live as long as the elves, by straight canon. Bel Shannar reigned as phoenix king for 1668 years, and was murdered. Since elves are considered young at ages of 100, statesmen of such high authority tend to be older by the time they establish themselves, and since he was also a seasoned war veteran, it seems unlikely that he was close to the age of 1668 when he would have died naturally. 2000-2500 is infinitely more likely as a natural lifespan.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 12:04 am 
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 2:33 pm 
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FVC wrote:
Nah. That's true for the Shadowlands and maybe Cothique as well, but when was the last time the Inner Kingdoms were even threatened? The Great War Against Chaos. That's the only example of any invader entering the Inner Kingdoms since the Sundering itself.


The nation as a whole is under threat. Sure, it may be kept to the Outer Kingdoms most of the time (although I think the Dark Elves have penetrated the Inner Kingdoms more than you think), but do you really think the Inner Kingdoms aren't sending troops to support, and thus having their own population bled off as well?

FVC wrote:
As such, I don't think that excuse for High Elf population decline works. As far as I can see, either you say the ABs are exaggerating and the High Elves aren't in population decline at all, or you make a hand-wave to explain how it could happen. My favourite hand-wave, as I believe I mentioned, is 'planned obsolescence scheme put there by the Old Ones'; because the decline makes no sense from an evolutionary perspective at all, and the Old Ones and Slann are already established to be jerks, so it's at least in character for them to screw over an entire race for no real reason. They've done it canonically once before. The High Elf population decline is much the same as the earthquakes along the World's Edge for the dwarfs, causing the Goblin Wars; the Slann decided to wipe them out. Why? I don't know. For the lulz, I guess. That seems to be the primary motivation behind most of the Old Ones' and Slann's actions.
While possible (the plan of the Old Ones does seem to be that humanity will do the heavy lifting, with elves and dwarfs as intermediary stages), I don't think that's the only interpretation. Another is, for example, that elven fertility is being adversely affected by the effects of the Vortex.

FVC wrote:
I also like that figure because it tallies with 40k Eldar, who canonically live for around a thousand years, give or take a few centuries from individual to individual. As they're to all intents and purposes the same race, I would find it very strange if the pre-industrial savages whose greatest technological achievement is a torsion-powered bolt thrower live twice as long as the enlightened, hyper-advanced space people who can blow up planets build giant space-faring habitats, and violate the law of conservation of energy on a daily basis.
On the other hand, the Elves don't suffer from the Thirst... and if you don't believe in that, at the very least the Asur still have their gods intact instead of being eaten by Slaanesh. In a universe where magic and gods are real, and where the race in question is one especially sensitive to such things, it makes a lot of sense that these things could make a difference.

Besides, there's evidence that particularly exceptional Eldar can live for long periods of time as well - there's a passage in the 3rd ed Eldar codex where a Ranger claims that Eldrad tried to warn the Emperor about the Horus Heresy, which would place Eldrad at ten thousand years old. Of course, that could have been bravado on the part of the source (an Ulthwe Ranger being interrogated by the Imperium).

That said, the impression I've always had is that elves (and Eldar, at least before the Fall) didn't really die of reaching a particular age per se. Asuryan's words were that (whatever iteration of Isha's children are being discussed) will "eventually grow weary of the world and die" which may indicate that it's a kind of willpower thing. It's somewhat like the elves of LOTR resisting the call to the West - there isn't an allotted lifespan which no Elf can exceed, but sooner or later, every elf succumbs to the call to die.

Thus, you can have an average age around a thousand, a thousand and a half years, while still allowing for the likes of the Witch King living for seven millenia (because we all know he's not going to give up until he holds the throne of Ulthuan or someone stakes him through the heart, chops his head off, fills his mouth with garlic, and burns the rest of the body. (Because you just know that if you just plain kill him he'll come back as a vampire or something...)


Last edited by draxynnic on Sat Feb 07, 2009 11:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 5:26 pm 
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Lathian is, I believe, correct, around 2000 to 2500 years seems correct. As already stated, Bel Shannar reigned for 1668 years, and was described as a wise and experienced leader, which makes me think he was nearing the end of his life, around 2500 years old.

I can't think of any evidence that Elves live for an average of 1500 years if not killed by war, murder etc.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 7:13 pm 
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so 2000 years and you'd be greatly respected.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 12:10 pm 
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An Empire scholar makes an educated guess in the 6th edition rulebook that elves live to about 2000, and as mentioned in this thread, the fluff seems to bear that out.

There's also a throwaway line in the old Dark Elf book about one of Malekith's top followers being granted "fruit of the black tree" by him and thus being rendered effectively immortal. Presumably that's how the Witch King himself and Morathi do it.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 12:35 pm 
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That and Morathi has access to the Cauldron of Blood. The implication has at least been it's all meant to be dark magic/Dhar/True Dhar (delete as necessary) that's keeping the King and mummy alive seeing as Druchii sorcerors were the basis for Nagash's necromancy and the early vampires.

I say this now as the only chance to unburden my soul. When I was about 15 I was mean to someone about having a character who was meant to be a 9000 year old Dark Elf who first taught magic to Nagash. Yes the Mary Sue warning went like a siren but an individual who had all their limbs cut off, their eyes plucked out and their tongue cut out and then was imprisoned inside the Balck Pyramid without food nor water and then survived by sucking on the dark magic and sheer force of will, that's actually quite cool.

Hmm, anyway to keep it relevant. Such characters, those who have a life extended by magic, aren't rare in the background. Chaos Dwarf sorcerors who turn to stone, necromancers who are this concept incarnate, the mummified slann who in fact are dead but don't let that stop them. For mages then it becomes more a matter of will and power, the vortex may have had an effect on Asur mages, perhap Caledor was older than we would have at first thought.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 1:02 pm 
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FVC wrote:
As they're to all intents and purposes the same race[...]


No, they are not. Why try to argue against background in WHFB by citing background from 40K when it has been established by the designers that there is no crossover between the two universes? Despite parallels between both races, there is no ground to base your reasoning upon.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 10:48 am 
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Ithnar wrote:
That and Morathi has access to the Cauldron of Blood. The implication has at least been it's all meant to be dark magic/Dhar/True Dhar (delete as necessary) that's keeping the King and mummy alive seeing as Druchii sorcerors were the basis for Nagash's necromancy and the early vampires.
Nice observation. I'd known the individual pieces of information from over a decade ago, but never made the connection. Vampires gain immortal life (of a sort) by drinking blood. Dark Elves gain immortality and renewed life by bathing in blood. It seems so obvious after it's been pointed out...


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 11:46 pm 
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I'm under impression that elves live (and stay young) as long as they have something to live for. For example, Arathion, Tyrion's father, staled and died freshly after he finally repaired the armour of Aenarion (which activity devoured nearly whole his life, his heart and his family's wealth) - after he fulfilled his life-long dream. Next example - Morelian, previous High Loremaster died after worthy successor appeared (and probably partially to pull Teclis back to Ulthuan :>). Malekith and his mother on the other hand still have a mighty goal to achieve, and I'm pretty sure that natural death isn't very of a threat for them until they aren't rulers of Ulthuan. Their lust for power is as fierce as Alith Anar's lust for vengace - notice that he's also ancient elf, but not, hm, let's say infirm at all :>


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 Post subject: Re: Elven lifespan?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 12:10 pm 
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Apologies for posting on an old thread, but Id like to add that my Elves have an average lifespan of 60-90 minutes :(

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 Post subject: Re: Elven lifespan?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 4:25 pm 
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Lady Phoenix wrote:
Apologies for posting on an old thread, but Id like to add that my Elves have an average lifespan of 60-90 minutes :(

:lol: this made me laugh


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 Post subject: Re: Elven lifespan?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 11:56 pm 
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Lady Phoenix wrote:
Apologies for posting on an old thread, but Id like to add that my Elves have an average lifespan of 60-90 minutes :(


Rather like space marines, they live for a thousand years outside combat and about 15 seconds in combat :D

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 Post subject: Re: Elven lifespan?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 12:42 am 
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John Rainbow wrote:
Lady Phoenix wrote:
Apologies for posting on an old thread, but Id like to add that my Elves have an average lifespan of 60-90 minutes :(

:lol: this made me laugh

Haha, you're not the only one!


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