Ulthuan

Ulthuan, Home of the Asur
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 8:44 pm 
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Hello all,

I have had a long interest in Asur lore and Total War Warhammer has reinforced it.

I discovered this forum not so long ago and would like to ask some lore questions.
I would be grateful if some of them could be answered.

1. The status of what is currently called Naggaroth before the Sundering. Some sources tell us that the retreating Druchii settled in a wasteland and built from scrath.
But maps of Ausr colonies usually show the cost of Naggaroth colonized by the Asur. Did the Druchii storm these lands? Were any of the current Druchii cities once Asur "Athels" and "Tors". If yes are any names and details about them known? To me it would make more sense that the Druchii managed to survive and recover if they already encountered an existing elven infrastructure they could build on.

2.What happened to the flying city of Saphethion?

3.Do we know anything about the Asur colonies in Araby and why they were abandoned (since not all colonies were abandoned after the war of the beard, Tor Ista in Estalia survived till 1214 IC after all.

4.Is there any information of the identity of Orion and Ariel before they came to Athel Loren. What kingdoms of Ulthuan did they come from?

5.All 3 Elven nations are de facto ruled by 1 male and 1 female ruler, of whom the female has a more priestly and the make a more kingly role. Is this kind of system strongly ingrained into the elven psyche? Do they see it as a representation of the duality of things?

Thanks in advance and sorry for my bad English.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:39 pm 
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Welcome Celahir!

:)

I'm not great on these kind of things but..

Celahir wrote:
4.Is there any information of the identity of Orion and Ariel before they came to Athel Loren. What kingdoms of Ulthuan did they come from?

I used to have the first Wood Elf army book and I got the impression that Orion and Ariel may well have been born in the Old World, though I'm not sure. Almost all the colonists who refused Caradryel's call to return to Ulthuan on his ascension seem to have then gradually made their way to Athel Loren, although the second army book implies this was limited and the third denies it outright.

Celahir wrote:
Thanks in advance and sorry for my bad English.

You're welcome and it's fine.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:39 am 
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Hi and welcome Celahir. Glad you found us.

Some answers to your questions as I see them.
1. It's a bit in the middle. Before the sundering elves settled in Naggaroth. This was (at least partially) done by Mallekith. In the 7th ed book, there is a world map (p13), which shows where they settled roughly. Main city seems to be Arnheim. In the chaos that was the sundering, I think a lot of that was destroyed in floods and earthquakes. The rest then either was loyal to Mallekith or overrun.

3. I think most were abandoned after the war of the beard. A couple probably were kept for strategic reasons or because the inhabitants didn't want to leave.

5. I think it feels more sort of accidental to them. Initially, before the first chaos invasion, the elves were only ruled by a female leader. Only the coming of war meant they got a male leader. All writing I've seen indicates that the HE at least hold the everqueen in higher regard then the phoenix king. But it's the way of the warhammer world that war dictates a lot. Which means we focus on the phoenix king and he slowly becomes more important.

Rod

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:50 am 
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Thank you very much for your answers!

I know the 7th ed map, altough it shows the elven posessions in the old world as smaller then they were shown in the Sundering and War of vengeance bookseries.
So nothing at all is known about the elven colonies in the new world? No names of cities, nor if any Drhuchii city was an Asur colony once?
I read somewhere that many of the colonies in what is now Naggaroth did belong to Tiranoc and that their loss hammered the last nail into the coffin of this once suprme kingdom (Bel Shanaar being the only Phoenix king who resisded in his own capital, instead of in Lothren does speak of the greatness of this kingdom and he did a lot of exploring and colonizing himself).

Arnheim dosnt sound very elven. More German/Empire in its name.

In the Sundering series we see colonies belonging to individual kingdoms, making each kingdom an empire in its own right. In the war of Vengeance series the colonies are shown to be autonomous principalities, similar to the 10 kingdoms of Ulthuan (answering only to the PK and EQ, but not to a "motherkingdom"). Is there any info on how the Asur colonial empire is administered? Ulthuan dosnt seem to have much of a bureaucracy after all.

The story of Tor Ista is the story of a colony on the western coast of Estalia, that gets destroyed by Greenskins. So far I could only find info about it in the german lexicanum: http://whfb-de.lexicanum.com/wiki/Tol_Ista

It is strange that with the phoenix king being a reaction to the demon invasion all Elven realms mirror the system of dual monarchy: PK/EQ, Orion/Ariel, Malekith/Morathi.

I also wanted to ask about laws in Ulthuan. It seems that every kingdom can make its own laws. Can the PK or EQ veto laws? Can they create laws for all of Ulthuan that supercede local laws?

Are all kingdoms but Saphery hereditary principalities, while Saphery is a magocracy, where the high mages ellect the high loremaster?


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:35 pm 
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Celahir wrote:
I read somewhere that many of the colonies in what is now Naggaroth did belong to Tiranoc and that their loss hammered the last nail into the coffin of this once suprme kingdom

A lot of it ended up underwater, didn't it?

Celahir wrote:
It is strange that with the phoenix king being a reaction to the demon invasion all Elven realms mirror the system of dual monarchy: PK/EQ, Orion/Ariel, Malekith/Morathi.

I guess Orion also arose as a reaction to invasion.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:21 pm 
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The original spelling of Arnheim was Arnhelm.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:52 am 
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Thank you for the answers.

Yes most of Tiranocs densely populated coast was destroyed during the Sundering. Much of the rebuilding was actually done by returning colonists (4th ed army book), because its own population was just that depleted. Not only because of the sundering itself, but also because the kingdom was under Druchii occupation for the length of the entire war and the stage of much warfare between Caledors and Malekiths forces.

But if the Nagarroth colonies were also largely Tiranoci, their fall would have put the last nail into the coffin of the kingdom, since otherwise Tiranoc could have used their resources to recover easier.

Was Arnheim/Arnhelm initially meant to be a human colony? It is already Asur in the first army book they get (4th ed).


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:05 pm 
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Celahir wrote:
Much of the rebuilding was actually done by returning colonists (4th ed army book), because its own population was just that depleted.

Interesting, thanks for that Celahir. I don’t have that army book any more.

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