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 Post subject: Warhammer: The Old World
PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 3:49 pm 
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https://www.warhammer-community.com/201 ... warhammer/

It is a while out...but I am glad I kept/never based my High Elves

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 4:21 pm 
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It is good news, but I feel like they have finally realised how much money they've been missing out on. Particularly those who played total war and wanted the models, only to find they didn't exist!

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2019 3:48 am 
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It is certainly an interesting move on their part and I'd be very curious to see the thought process behind it even though we'll never know.

It would also be interesting to know how many 'old' players would actually return however as I'm assuming the majority have moved onto other systems.

I am still holding onto my dusty Tomb Kings however and seeing what this news brings when it eventually drops.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2019 1:27 pm 
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Something I'm very curious about, is whether Games Workshop will take the chance to delve into more areas of the Warhammer World. Albion, Vampire Coast or Cathay, for instance.

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Nippon in the 1980s, not seen in miniature form ever since.

This could be especially doable if the new Warhammer Fantasy take is more limited in scope than the vast army books of the past, with all their demands for miniature kits. The army book format in and of itself became a creative straitjacket for the GW studio. In the 1980s, they were free to release a handful of new figures whenever they felt like it, and thus explore Nippon, Halflings, Norsca, Fimir or a plethora of monsters with small investment of resources. In the 1990s-2000s, they were increasingly bound up in the demands of the army book threadmill. If they wanted to release something new, it had to either be a complete new army, or just something small on the spin-off side such as specialist games and Dreadfleet (for which the market wasn't good in those days, or at least marketing under Kirby wasn't up to the task) or summer campaign miniatures such as the Hellcannon, Middenheim and Albion miniatures delving into niche concepts.

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Kislev during 6th edition: A mini-army, later unsupported.

We did see Dogs of War and Chaos Dwarfs as a small new army in the 1990s (unsupported after 5th edition up to 8th), and a small army for Kislev in 6th edition, unsupported thereafter. Warmaster sported Araby, but Warmaster was not a great hit. Ogre Kingdoms was the one new big army, or one of two if you count the Daemons of Chaos' expanded range, and it needed an entire miniature range.

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Chaos Dwarfs: 1990s army, yet left out in the cold for most of Warhammer Fantasy.

Then there were fun thematic armies in White Dwarf, such as Kemmler's Barrow legion, Vampire Coast, Clan Moulder and the Gnoblar Horde. Building on existing modelling ranges and often requiring conversions: Which was part of the fun, for sure, but ensured it stayed a tiny niche and opened up for small companies to produce models GW weren't. This problem of inviting in the small competition to open new niches was much exacerbated when studio designers during 7th edition introduced new units in army lists which did not yet sport official models, such as Forsaken.

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Dreadfleet: One last exploratory hurrah before the End Times.

This commercial bind ultimately put dampeners on Warhammer's creative potential: It is huge, and can be explored to much greater extent with a more limited setup than army book-threadmill WHFB of old. But ultimately GW would want to produce models for anything peripheral they delve into, and that mean they may well shy away from introducing more things on the periphery of the background, to not give competitors possible bones to snatch.

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Fimir: A weird 1980s creation because the CEO wanted Warhammer to have its very own fantasy race. Resurrected lately by Forgeworld after decades of hibernation.

So there may be little in the way of brand new additions to the glorious setting, such as Inca Dwarfs in Lustria, fantasy Songhai and so on. And there may potentially also be little in the way of covering already existing periphery stuff such as Khureshi Nagas, Albion, Ind, Norsca and so on; this obviously depends on commercial success, how limited in scope the new game and miniature ranges will be, and on budget or will within the studio.

This is a long-standing limit to driving the creative potential of Games Workshop's own grimdark, historically based, classic fantasy smörgåsbord setting to the hilt. It remains to be seen if and how GW will tackle this obstacle.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2019 2:29 pm 
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I with most of the oldhammer people on this one. Interesting, but I'll stick to 3rd. It will be interesting to see how they handle it. Hopefully the required miniature count will be much closer to what it was in 3rd rather than 8th.

While I love the idea of them drifting around the world I expect that the focus will be heavy on the empire and chaos to start. I'd also expect most of the focus to be on big cool kits.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2019 1:27 am 
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If we get new models lightly updated like with Necromunda I'll be reasonably happy.

And yes some Albion, Araby, Kislev models. Tilean or Estalian armies. So many choices to make new and interesting stuff.

I don't like the way they've sort of made it " Horus heresy esq"

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 8:48 am 
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It is interesting news. Should be fun to follow. Though at the moment it's little more then an announcement aimed at making competing games less interesting by keeping warhammer in the picture.

I think something needed to be done when AoS launched. GW had the issue that WH had become too established. Most changes they could make were cosmetic and any changes that were an improvement were frowned upon by large parts of the community. Just look at the reception of 8th edition.

AoS was a clean brake, which let them build something from the ground up. I'm not a fan of the game, but it's a nice effort at something new. This should now give them a chance to do something similar to WH. Redesign it, hopefully with all the lessons they learned from past editions, without the baggage of previous editions. Of course, they should still be more then capable of messing it up...

We'll see in the next couple of years.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 7:37 pm 
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Firstly, three years plus is a long time. Secondly, will it simply be AoS rules transplanted to a different setting? Thirdly, will they make all the models 20mm or something so existing stuff can’t be used?

All of that said, it is interesting.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 8:49 pm 
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Yes 3 years is a long time, which is why I assume they aren't taking 3 years to transplant AoS rules to setting they already know and the fact they mentioned square bases would be entirely irrelevant if it was AoS rules.

I also assume it would be a very expensive to downsize all the existing model moulds or create new ones for races that already exist. Logic tells me that there will be using a lot of their existing moulds as most of the models could be used for both AoS and whatever form of warhammer they choose to bring back.

Yes I am a little scared but when it comes down to it I am just glad that the warhammer i know is getting some love. If they start supporting the models again then I am sure the community will "fix" the rules if its even required.. blood bowl did that for years... Support is the key and it would be great to get some of the new blood who are playing AoS across into the old world. On another note I am super happy with what they're doing with blood bowl and some of the other old games, are they perfect.. no.. but they are pretty good and again the key is they are being supported!

I'm excited


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 8:35 am 
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Rob9 wrote:
Yes 3 years is a long time, which is why I assume they aren't taking 3 years to transplant AoS rules to setting they already know

I’m not suggesting we’re going to get exactly the same rules, GW have often modified existing ones to a varying degree when making new games.

Rob9 wrote:
the fact they mentioned square bases

I must have missed this. Where do they mention it?

Rob9 wrote:
I also assume it would be a very expensive to downsize all the existing model moulds or create new ones for races that already exist. Logic tells me that there will be using a lot of their existing moulds as most of the models could be used for both AoS and whatever form of warhammer they choose to bring back.

That’s a fair point. But it seemed to be that a large part of the reason for AoS was to re-brand existing fantasy creatures (Troggoths etc) and strongly encourage players to move to the new, larger models with a different aesthetic. They’ve discontinued a great deal of what characterized Warhammer as was, for example the O&G artillery I was going to buy has all gone.

Rob9 wrote:
If they start supporting the models again then I am sure the community will "fix" the rules if its even required..

That would be great. One question is whether guys playing 9th Age, Kings of War etc would come home and support it. I guess if it has a momentum of it’s own it may not matter where that comes from.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2019 12:53 am 
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I still think 3 years is a long time if all they want to do is a rule variance, I am sure there will be new rules they feel work they could try and implant in the old world but I AM HOPING 2-3 years means some solid core rules with play testing. GW didn't do a bad job with the bloodbowl release so hoping its similar. Yes there were a couple of rule issues but all in all I think GW have done great things with BB. I hope "the old world" follows the same suit. (I can feel some nerd rage from a die hard BBowler for such comments)

Yes I went looking again yesterday for the square base comment and I couldn't find it but I definitely saw it, it wasn't in the write up it was in the headline or headline picture or something.

I know GW have discontinued plenty of stuff over the years but I would assume they still have the moulds or as they are a miniature based company maybe they plan on some new sculpts to get some coin out of us.

I think there probably would be some great new blood who play AoS who would be interested in exploring the old world and nostalgia is a powerful thing, hoping some broken hearts forgive and dip their toes in to check it out.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2019 7:56 am 
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SpellArcher wrote:
Rob9 wrote:
If they start supporting the models again then I am sure the community will "fix" the rules if its even required..

That would be great. One question is whether guys playing 9th Age, Kings of War etc would come home and support it. I guess if it has a momentum of it’s own it may not matter where that comes from.

I think this is the key. If the people who left GW after the end times don't come back then there isn't really a community to fix the rules. It can still be a moderate success if they don't come back, since new players might be interested and try stuff out. But I think that 9th age and KOW players have move on and don't care much for nostalgia at this point. A few people who left completely might come back. But in 3 years time people who moved on will have been playing T9A or KOW for 7 years. And I don't think many people will abandon a game they've been playing 7 years to return to a company who blew up their beloved world and abandoned them.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2019 2:44 pm 
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The reaction over on Ninth Age forums has been mixed. Members of the 9th Age Team which I have spoken to takes it in stride, while many forum members are a bit up in arms. Many have taken the opportunity to compare T9A to WHFB, and point out the current flaws of T9A: Bureaucratic rules; slow pace of army book releses (it's volunteer-driven, so no surprise there) and not enough darkness, punch, humour and broad appeal in the fluff (they've got subtlety and finesse covered in the lore, which is usually the more sophisticated stage of development which settings arrive to late in the game, rather than from the very beginning). Most who play T9A does so with the Warhammer Fantasy setting firmly in their heads.

Many will stick to T9A, either out of a grudge for past wrongs or because they much prefer the rules quality and balance which GW has never been able to achieve. Many will go back to Games Workshop and give the resurrection a chance. Of course, 2-3 years is a long enough time that T9A will have managed to release a lot more full army books by then, and maybe cemented themselves more firmly as a setting all of their own in the minds of its players and fluff fans. T9A's playerbase will take a hit when Warhammer: The Old World gets released, but then again how will it look like after a couple of years when GW's resurrection isn't new and shiny anymore? Recent GW publications for Necromunda have had great art and promising new background concepts, but also shoddy writing and abysmal rules which clearly weren't checked and polished before going to print. How will people find the new Warhammer Fantasy game to be?

It remains to be seen how many goes back to GW, and how many then may return to T9A in due time. The nostalgia is certainly there, but so is the sore grudge and the new habit of sticking to better balanced community rules.

Image

Can't speak for Kings of War players. It's all a long term game, and the monolithic Warhammer Fantasy community is likely to stay split, although the active Warhammer Fantasy element may swell to great size again and perhaps become dominant although not monodominant as in the past.

Personally I'll check out GW's new background and art and miniatures, and continue to support T9A by tossing fantasy concepts at them from the sideline. After all, T9A's ultimate creative potential have none of the corporate limits of Warhammer Fantasy, and T9A may in time become so much more than a renaming of familiar WHFB armies. Plus, this community project is basically Chaos Dwarfs Online multiplied by 16 to cover the entirety of Warhammer Fantasy left out in the cold, with hobbyists having to fend for themselves. Gotta love that creative enthusiasm such independence generates. :)

Image examples of new fantasy concepts in the Ninth Age, or proposed for it, by various artists.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2019 10:19 am 
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Karak Norn Clansman wrote:
Can't speak for Kings of War players.

My gut feeling is that the new Warhammer TOW won't be as good of a rule system as the latest KOW 3rd edition so a lot of KOW players will likely remain with that system. However, a lot of former WHFB gamers just up and left the hobby after End Times, so if GW does do a good job with the new rules, they might pull those players back and if that happens in large enough numbers, those players might pull in some KOW folk. After all, we all want to play games, and there's not a whole lot of room for multiple table top games in most people's lives

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 3:34 pm 
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KoW is on 3rd addition? I play a game of it from time to time (some people just find 3rd edition warhammer to hard to get into- and I get that) but obviously the people I play with don't keep up with all the developments- and no problem there, 2nd edition still plays like it always has. I do find it interesting that there can be a new rule-set and they didn't even mention it.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2019 12:45 am 
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Yeah, KoW just came out with a third edition. Shooting is really not worth it anymore, but even so the game is astonishingly well designed and balanced. Also superbly intuitive. Really recommend it!

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2020 7:34 pm 
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https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/02/06/cartography-in-the-old-worldgw-homepage-post-1fw-homepage-post-1/

The latest for the new old world, looks like it's set about 1000 years before the end times. I'm actually starting to really look forward to it.

I hope the models aren't too newhammer though.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2020 9:24 pm 
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Thanks for that Olthannon. It’s looking pretty thorough and planned-out isn’t it?

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2020 8:56 am 
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It definitely sounds interesting. And moving to a different period in the timeline could be a good move. It lets the developers get away with more new stuff then if they'd just gone back to the years just before the End Times. Let's see where it goes :)

Thanks for sharing Olthannon :)

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 6:01 pm 
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I am following this with interest maybe some cool miniature comes along that I want add to my collection and if the game is appealing I will definitely play alongside over a dozen other games I play. I would be a bad designer if I focused and played only one game.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:36 pm 
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I hope they do some cool stuff with like Manfred Skavenslayer, the vampire wars. And I hope they do some cool things with Araby and Kislev too! I'd spend gallons of money to get Bretonnians and Kislev new minis.

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