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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 7:48 am 
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SpellArcher wrote:
I also find fiction a great source of ideas.

There is a great interaction between fiction and real history. We have quite a lot of it (real history I mean) and much of it is as fantastical as a lot of fiction writing (except for the elves and mages and stuff...). You can find anything from split empires that try to reunite or kids who conquer half the world to a small band of soldiers conquering an empire and everything in between. Both for the big epic stories, but also smaller and more intimate stories.

For instance, I ran across a blog post a short while ago which described how Tolkien modeled Gondor after the Byzantine empire. It was a fun read to see a lot of the parallels and it helped with the realistic and epic feel of Tolkien's work I think.

Rod

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 6:51 pm 
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History is a great inspiration for fiction for sure, and I've often come across disappointed people who say that they no longer read fiction or fantasy, because history already sports the better stories. Tolkien drawing heavily upon history (Rome/Byzantium for Arnor/Gondor, Anglo-Saxons for Rohan, Jews and Nordic mythology Dwarves for his Dwarves, Carthage & Barbary Corsairs for Umbar and so on) is what help make his Middle-Earth tick. All for the better. Warhammer Fantasy plays very much on the same strings, although more explicitly than Tolkien ever did.

Carnyx of the Gods

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Matthew Klaas de Witte wrote:
Unofficial fan content

The Carnyx has immense magical properties, it is as rare as it is powerful and so is the magic woven into the earth that suspends it across the field of battle. The massive instrument must be held up by arms of arcbronze laden with gold, and played by three individuals. It confers immense strength unto its allies, the mere sight of it rallies men to the most lost of causes.

I wanted to bring in a carnyx, but I didn't want it to be the same as the cornu I already depicted. So I made it really really big. But how would it be held? It would need something to hold it up. After I figured out the type of stand for it, it took me many drawings to figure out how it would be brought to the battlefield. Originally on a chariot, but I had enough of drawing them for now, and I felt that it was getting repetitive. I remembered that Karl Kopinski painting of Karl Franz fighting a giant, with the floating towers in the background and it gave me an idea to make a floating henge-hillock of sorts suspended by magic. This took about a week to properly flesh out the idea working between that and other art and fighting a cold.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2019 4:14 am 
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Prince of Spires wrote:
SpellArcher wrote:
I like how the armour on these warriors elaborates on classic Celtic themes.

The helmet has a Roman feel to me.

I really like the little details like the featers


I've read that being said on a few threads my work has been posted so addressing it now... AHEM: It's quite the opposite actually! Romans took the designs (as they did with a myriad of things) from La Tene (Iron Age Celtic) culture. Why we think it looks Roman because we are more likely to see historically accurate Roman arms in the media, while Celtic arms are relegated to the "knuckle-dragging barbarian" (if they are depicted at all) so as to fit a story-telling trope.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2019 7:19 am 
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Thanks for jumping in on the discussion. You learn something new every day :)

It always seems to me that the romans were very good at assimilating other cultures and technologies and using them to their full potential. So it's no surprise to me that they got their design from somewhere else.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2019 11:34 am 
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The laughable fact about that is we've kept up that idea of the Iron Age peoples being thick since the Romans. During the Victorian period where all the various empires were trying to draw their connections to the past to prove that they were allowed to own half the planet, they all tried to see themselves as the natural successors to Rome. They obsessed over that and weirdly the public perception of that time seems lodged there and that's what most people think of when they think Romans.

For instance, the Roman armour in gladiator is historically inaccurate. It was out of date almost 150 years before. It was specifically chosen by the directors because that's what everyone thinks of as 'Roman'. The Germanic tribes would have mail armour and leathers rather than..? Animal skin or whatever.

Another good one is that by the end of the 1st century CE, there weren't many Romans in the army. Most were from Spain, Gaul, North Africa, Syria etc. Assimilation through force is what the Romans did, its known as syncretism.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 9:31 pm 
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This map has been shared by Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl over on Lustria Online:

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Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl wrote:
As Matt hasn’t created any Albion artwork of late due to other projects, to keep this thread going I’ve been working on a map of Albion and the various factions on it, based upon one that @Warden made for his Dragon Isles Samurai Clans in one of his lore threads (here). I’ve included all three of the major tribes that Matt has devised, plus territory that belongs to the Truthsayers as I thought they would have the same level of power the Druids had over the actual Celtic tribes (I would say akin to that which the Pope possessed over the various countries of Medieval Europe), surviving enclaves of Fimir (as I found that some of them still live on the island), the armies of corrupted tribesmen that follow Be’lakor (which I’ve called the Hordes of Shadow or Shadow Clans) and the Norse, as they’re portrayed as controlling much of Albion in Warhammer: Total War and I thought it would provide continuity to replicate some of that.

The emblems were all borrowed from Rome: Total War, Rome II: Total War (in the case of the Truthsayers emblem) and Warhammer: Total War (the emblems for all three of the evil factions here are Norse faction emblems in the game, but I thought the green one would be good for Fimir because of the central ‘eye’ in the middle of the four Chaos spikes, and the Chaos star would be appropriate for Be’lakor’s corrupted clansmen)

...

I’ve decided to revise my map to acknowledge this segment of Matt’s feedback:

I’ve incorporated the Great Ogham into Boreni territory and swapped the positions of the Belenii and Toulenii around to give the Belenii access to the Tower of Llenog (which actually isn’t on this map but on a similar more detailed version is present in the region I’ve given to the Belenii, between the two lots of marshes).

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2020 5:31 pm 
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Prince of Spires wrote:
It always seems to me that the romans were very good at assimilating other cultures and technologies and using them to their full potential.

I think these things went backwards and forwards a lot. For example here we think of kite shields as being a Norman thing because of the Conquest but I think they may have got these from the Romans who maybe got them from the Arabs? Or the Welsh Dragon which may have been Roman before but Sarmatian before that?

Karak Norn Clansman wrote:
map

I holiday on the Isle of Wights. Haven't spotted any yet...

:mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2020 10:06 am 
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It goes backwards and forwards yeah, the Roman helmet design of the 1st-3rd centuries is Gallic for instance, but you can trace coinage of the iron age in Britain to staters given to Cisalpine mercenaries in the 4th century BCE. People tend to never be from "Group X" and "Group Y" and that's that. 'Borders' are incredibly fluid and people and cultures moved with them. The Romans weren't necessarily innovative in that respect, it's just that having a sizeable empire means that these technologies of different people become absorbed and integrated as the people themselves end up doing.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2020 12:25 pm 
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Backwards and forwards indeed. Interesting discussion. :)

Lordofskullpass over on EEFL has written the first Albion army list, based on de Witte's work. Check it out!

lordofskullpass wrote:
For a long time I've been avidly following the development of a certain Matt Klaas de Witte's interpretation of the island of Albion, as I think it's far better than the version GW developed in the Dark Shadows campaign of yesteryear. Additionally, for the past year-ish I have been developing my own unofficial army list for this version of Albion, so that those who are fed up of GW's cavemen and Matthias Eliasson's fantasy Highlanders can play an army of proper Iron Age Celts for a change, as the Celts were at their most powerful and advanced during the La Tene period, which could have lasted much longer had it not been for everyone's favourite Latin-speaking xenophobes and copycats bringing such new-fangled nonsense as 'discipline', 'uniform' and 'mass murder in gladiatorial arenas' to ancient Europe. So, without further ado, I present to you the first draft of my Albion army list for Warhammer Fantasy 8th Edition!

Beyond the Old World and the 'civilised' lands of Bretonnia and the Empire lies the island of Albion, the birthplace of mankind. Those who travel there believe it is nothing more than an island of mists, bogs and ancient ruins, yet are oblivious to the fact that it is home to an advanced civilisation even older than the desert kingdoms of Nehekhara, who possess secrets taught to them by the Old Ones themselves. Proud tribal Overkings lead their people in a neverending war to not just survive, but thrive, against such abominations as the monstrous Fimir, barbarous Norse and, worst of all, the savage and bloodthirsty warriors enslaved by Be'lakor, the first Daemon Prince of Chaos. At the sonorous call of Carnyx warhorns, rank upon rank of brave, honourable warriors charge across the field, with nimble cavalry and deadly chariots sweeping along the flanks and mighty constructs infused with the power of the earth ploughing into the foe. The mystical wards of the Truthsayers and the divine predictions of the Oracles fuel the strength of their sword-wielding brethren, while the myriad shock troops of the island's tribes deal the hammer blow that crushes the enemy advance once and for all. While the colonies of humanity to the south languish in decadence, poverty and greed, the first of its nations battles endlessly to keep the world safe from the foul taint of Chaos.

This army consists of a combination of units and characters devised by Matt, some created based upon my knowledge of real-world ancient Celtic tribal armies and additional units inspired by GW's interpretation to retain at least a semblance of faith toward GW's source material. As with my Swarms of the Hive Mind army list I have tried to maintain a combination of balance and thematic fun in the unit choices and profiles, though this army will require extensive playtesting by myself and others before true balance can be achieved. All my unofficial army lists aim to reach the 'middle tier' of balance in the Warhammer Fantasy rankings, because the game is more fun if all armies have their own strengths and weaknesses, and I attach the first draft of my Albion list below:
drive.google.com/file/d/1u3l6Ph_doPiS8VpGGV5K96XvyBVefTkn/view?usp=sharing

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2020 9:50 am 
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From E-mail conversation with Matt de Witte:

Matthew Klaas de Witte wrote:
Truthsayers

The moral, legal, spiritual, and cultural guides of the people of Albion are also powerful mages. But only those that hold any sway on these aforementioned institutions on the isle are a part of the mysterious Circle of Truthsayers, a hierarchy of individuals headed by The Seven, The Three, then The One, in that order. The Seven are not of little note, they hold great sway on the island and are active in its politics. The Three are the heads of each sanctioned discipline of magic Light, Life, and the Hunt, with the foremost being Life, seen as the most benevolent. The One is Draoiorix, the most powerful being on Albion, The Formless One.
Though they practice the same disciplines as other races only 3 are sanctioned by Circle Truthsayers. It is possible to practice others but they are only discovered on your own and not taught by The Circle. The only possibility to gain proficiency is to seek outside assistance. If one does go on the path of another discipline of magic, you will be exiled from The Circle, you may still fight for Albionic tribes, a chieftain will likely not refuse such help, but it comes at the cost of losing this grand connection to the most powerful group in Albion.

Spells used on here are not like any other because the island is isolated, thus, it did not develop along the same path as the outside world. Though some may closely resemble those invoked by other races it is purely a coincidence.

You may practice other forms of magic openly, though it is frowned upon by the Truthsayer aristocracy. You may not practice these forms if you want to hold any position of power or be included in the Order of the Truthsayers. It will cause you to be immediately expelled if you are caught, and even if it happened in the past. This is a large reason for some to leave the order to become mercenaries, heretics, and outcasts. Though it must be added that there have been good and noteworthy men and women who have used magics of other forms to benefit Albion and its tribes. But those who dabble in these magics, combined with their spurned nature oft turn to Chaos, becoming Dark Emissaries.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 8:13 am 
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It has a nice flavour to it. I like it.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 7:29 pm 
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Karak Norn Clansman wrote:

I finaly ended up writing a novel inspired by this lovely drawing, featuring loads of Manhir (albeit slightly different from these).; Defender of Gilgin. There might even be some Chaos Dwarf inspired pests in there ;)

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 2:01 pm 
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Prince of Spires wrote:
I finaly ended up writing a novel inspired by this lovely drawing, featuring loads of Manhir (albeit slightly different from these).; Defender of Gilgin. There might even be some Chaos Dwarf inspired pests in there ;)


Wow, fantastic! What a lovely source of inspiration for writing. It's so great when creatives inspire each other with concepts like this. I'll tell Matthew.

I did not know you're an author, Rod! Great to hear. Later on I'll have read your works after finishing a number of books. I am very curious to see what you've come up with for Defender of Gilgin in particular. ;)

Cheers!

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2021 3:42 pm 
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Karak Norn Clansman wrote:
I did not know you're an author, Rod! Great to hear. Later on I'll have read your works after finishing a number of books. I am very curious to see what you've come up with for Defender of Gilgin in particular.

I'm only a small author :) It's a hobby which keeps me sane and it's fun to get your books out there. Though I wouldn't mind if they became wildly succesful of course ;)

That image was indeed a great source of inspiration. There's just so much story in it. I love it. Out of curiosity, how do you know Matthew? Let me know what you think of the book if you do pick it up. I love feedback :)

Rod

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 7:06 pm 
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I'll be sure to tell you once I do! It will be a good while before I get around to it, but it will eventually happen, I promise. Best of luck with the series! :)

I came into contact with him over T9A culture concepts. I asked if he wanted to draw an Ethiopian Dwarf, and he said he liked the idea, but only worked for commissions, never voluntary for others, so I chucked money at him. 8)

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