Games Workshop AGM: A relentless profit machine

[Ricold]

http://www.iii.co.uk/news-opinion/richa ... ign=buffer

Games Workshop is casting itself as a relentless profit making machine. Customers, staff, and investors who don’t like it better get out of the way.

On Tuesday, the day before Games Workshop’s annual general meeting, my twelve-year-old son burst into the office and noticed the proxy forms allowing me to attend and vote.

When he saw Games Workshop written in bold on the papers he asked what I was doing. I told him I was visiting headquarters to find out more about the company. “Good,” he replied, “Can you take back my set?”

I think he was hoping for some cash back. Joe had bought a kind of starter kit and had started painting the figures in preparation for his first fantasy wargame. But without friends who play the game, or a parent modeller, he ran out of steam and for the past year it’s been standing in a pile destined for eBay.

The failure of Warhammer to storm the ramparts of the Beddard household has not put me off Games Workshop as an investment, but it does add to my insecurity because my personal experience coincides with the experience of gamers protesting through various Internet channels including this web site, that the hobby is increasingly inaccessible to gamers.

I came to the AGM wondering whether Games Workshop was alive to the risk that it is serving a diminishing band of nostalgic modellers who are prepared to spend a lot of money on intricate miniatures they will probably never use in battle, while through price rises, rule changes, and staff reductions at Games Workshop stores, the company has alienated new recruits who cannot afford armies of figures, and frankly aren’t that bothered about how pretty they are.

Though it’s profitable now, such a strategy might not enhance Games Workshop’s ambition to stay in business forever.

Walking up Willow Lane in Nottingham, the company’s headquarters looms like a fortress, shuttered and battleship grey. Within the keep is the newly refurbished Warhammer World, venue for the AGM.

Shareholders are led up a wide arcing staircase through one of three shops into the events hall, a keep within the keep surrounded by mock castle walls and filled with tables for gaming and modelling, and then into Bugman’s Bar, named in honour of the greatest dwarfen brew-master. There, the AGM motions are passed without question, new chief executive Kevin Rountree gives a presentation and finance director Rachel Tongue take us through the numbers. We’re whisked through a permanent exhibition of miniatures, some standing alone, and others massed in battle on vast sets, so tumultuous sometimes its hard to work out what I’m looking at. Here we mingle with directors and other senior staff including chairman Tom Kirby, who has run the company for most of its history, and Games Workshop’s head of intellectual property. In the final chamber of the exhibition, he and the company’s head of product and supply talk about Warhammer Age of Sigmar, a complete reboot of the original Warhammer Fantasy game. Then it’s back to Bugman’s for a lunch of roast beef, syrup pudding, and a pint (and a half) of Bugman’s Best, which is a very fine beer.

As an AGM experience it beats an hour in an anonymous public relations company’s office in the City.

Touring the exhibition, I asked one of the board members if he played, or if he modelled. He used to do both, he said but now he finds running businesses is even more fun. Not for the first time that day the thought crossed my mind that Games Workshop’s management might view staff, customers, and investors as figures on a tabletop that they must manoeuvre ruthlessly to victory. Rountree’s main preoccupation is recruitment. He and Kirby have spent the last five years returning the business to high levels of profitability by taking out cost. Now, if it’s to grow, the new lean profit machine must recruit new storekeepers, particularly in continental Europe and North America. It’s a hard job, he says, running a one-man Warhammer store, and the company’s tough love, it supports managers who “want to continue in the job”, contributes to a 30% turnover rate. I’m not sure that’s bad for a retailer but considering for most of Games Workshop’s managers the job must start out a vocation, it could improve.

I’ve got bad news for disenchanted gamers complaining on the Internet. The company’s attitude towards customers is as clinical as its attitude towards staff. If you don’t like what it’s selling. You’re not a customer. The company believes only a fraction of the population are potential hobbyists, and it’s not interested in the others. The move to one-man stores has reduced the number of customers, sometimes by 30%, but the stores are profitable now.

Maybe you think you’re a customer, or a potential customer, because you like playing games. But this is the important bit. This is the bit written in every Games Workshop annual report. The company’s mission statement is “we make the best fantasy miniatures in the world and sell them globally at a profit and we intend to do this forever.”

It does not mention games. In conversation, I’m told that the word “Game” in Games Workshop encourages the misconception that games are its business, but that only about 20% of Games Workshop’s customers are gamers. The rest are modellers and collectors. Maybe half of them think about playing now and then. The other half have no intention. People actually walk into the stores because they’re curious about modelling fantastic armies.

When another shareholder asks if the company would sell games with pre-painted easy to assemble miniatures like the popular Star Wars themed X-Wing game, there’s a collective growl from the Games Workshop people. It wouldn’t be a hobby business then, it would be a toy company.

Games are easy to sell if they catch on, but it’s the modelling aspect of Warhammer that makes it a hobby, sometimes for life, and peculiarly lucrative to Games Workshop. Some of the individual models we’ve seen in glass cases, those from the company’s Forgeworld collection, retail at £1,250 each. Some customers spend many thousands of pounds a year and they paint them with incredible craftsmanship. These are good customers.

Though I’m left with little doubt where the businesses’ priorities lie there is hope for gamers who like to model. Kevin Rountree explains how introducing products at new price points is different to reducing the recommended retail price, something the company resolutely refuses to do. It’s considering “putting more value in the box”, discounting in other words, when people buy in number. That ought to encourage gamer-modellers.

The Age of Sigmar is something of a revelation too. I hadn’t appreciated how much it breaks with the past. Games Workshop has simplified the rules from 150 pages in an expensive rule book to four pages that are available for free download or in its free app. They’re easier to learn, easier to play and easier for the company to translate into many more languages. The game’s narrative will continuously unfold with associated product launches and in a trick borrowed from the Space Marines of Warhammer’s futuristic sister universe, Warhammer 40,000, gamers can employ heroes with superpowers (Stormcast Eternals). Purists think they unbalance the game, but Warhammer 40,000 grew to be a far more popular game than Warhammer Fantasy. The company cannot divulge sales figures, its in a closed period and Age of Sigmar is only in its third month, but in terms of other metrics, downloads and Sigmar themed magazine sales, management seems more than satisfied. Anyway, it’s at pains to point out, Warhammer Age of Sigmar is a long-term investment.

I leave the Games Workshop fortress confident of one thing. Managment have set a course and they will not be deviated. Ultimately, shareholders who question it come up against the mission statement. Games Workshop exists to make models, because that’s what it does well. Potentially lucrative income from licences granted to video games producers like the much anticipated and soon to be released Total War Warhammer will always be incidental because video gamers do not become modellers, and Games Workshop doesn’t know how to make good video games.

Niche businesses are often very profitable and the hard decisions they take is what makes them different, but they’re also vulnerable if unforeseen events reduce the attractiveness of the niche. That’s why most niche companies try to expand their niches, or develop related niches. Having defined itself so tightly, perhaps the only way Games Workshop can grow is geographically, which explains the emphasis on North America and Europe (where it already has a sizeable presences). It has a small team in China, sussing out the Asian market.

Sigmar sounds like a good product, and I think maybe I should buy it for Joe for Christmas. But as I walk back along a tow-path to the railway station the spell wears off.

He just wants to play. He’s not an anointed one. He doesn’t have Warhammer DNA. I don’t think he’ll ever walk into a Warhammer store because he wants to paint a Stormcast Eternal.

Maybe we’ll get him X-Wing instead.

Once you've read that, follow the original link and have a read of the comments too. Almost as interesting as the article

[Lithlandis Stormcrow]

"Sigmar sounds like a good product, and I think maybe I should buy it for Joe for Christmas. But as I walk back along a tow-path to the railway station the spell wears off.

He just wants to play. He’s not an anointed one. He doesn’t have Warhammer DNA. I don’t think he’ll ever walk into a Warhammer store because he wants to paint a Stormcast Eternal.

Maybe we’ll get him X-Wing instead."

This says it all.

[Daeron]

"Sigmar sounds like a good product, and I think maybe I should buy it for Joe for Christmas. But as I walk back along a tow-path to the railway station the spell wears off.

He just wants to play. He’s not an anointed one. He doesn’t have Warhammer DNA. I don’t think he’ll ever walk into a Warhammer store because he wants to paint a Stormcast Eternal.

Maybe we’ll get him X-Wing instead."

This says it all.

Yeah. I can't help but think that, if they still tried to use WFB as their presented product, the chance he'd buy WFB for Joe for Christmas would be even less.

[SpellArcher]

only about 20% of Games Workshop’s customers are gamers

There seems to be some scepticism over this figure.

Ie did they just roll the contents of one of the new dice shakers and add the numbers up?

[Lithlandis Stormcrow]

only about 20% of Games Workshop’s customers are gamers

There seems to be some scepticism over this figure.

Ie did they just roll the contents of one of the new dice shakers and add the numbers up?

Seems legit. Especially considering that the following words came in the 2014 annual report:

"Our market is a niche market made up of people who want to collect our miniatures. They tend to be male, middle-class, discerning teenagers and adults. We do no demographic research, we have no focus groups, we do not ask the market what it wants. These things are otiose in a niche."

[Swordmaster of Hoeth]

They don't do market research but they know 20% of the customers are gamers.

If you don't buy their products you are not their customer (even if you used to buy). There is not such a thing as potential customer either.

They are adamant that they are models company and want to charge them premium. They also claim they are producing the best models in the world. Well, let's make a comparison between SM Predator and Tamiya Panther, clearly a model for collectors.

SM Prdeator costs £35 and has 96 parts. Tamiya Panter has 300+ parts and costs £20. And if you even had a pleasure of assembling Tamiya models you would know how high quality is that.

I could write more but to me management of GW is delusional, arrogant and they have no idea what kind of product they try to sell.

[Galharen]

they have no idea what kind of product they try to sell.

Exactly.
I can't even write anything about GW now without using $§%&§%"§ words, so I will stop here

[Shannar, Sealord]

"Sigmar sounds like a good product, and I think maybe I should buy it for Joe for Christmas. But as I walk back along a tow-path to the railway station the spell wears off.

He just wants to play. He’s not an anointed one. He doesn’t have Warhammer DNA. I don’t think he’ll ever walk into a Warhammer store because he wants to paint a Stormcast Eternal.

Maybe we’ll get him X-Wing instead."

This says it all.

Yeah. I can't help but think that, if they still tried to use WFB as their presented product, the chance he'd buy WFB for Joe for Christmas would be even less.

So? < 0 is just 0. This isn't a WFB vs AoS thing. It's GW not understanding who their customers are.

[Lithlandis Stormcrow]

So? < 0 is just 0. This isn't a WFB vs AoS thing. It's GW not understanding who their customers are.

And it should be noted that the kid - did - get him to buy WHFB models to begin with, while AoS is still considered a no-no by the father... the same man who previously authorized WHFB to be purchased.

So, WHFB? Why Not?
AoS? ...nah.

[John Rainbow]

Interesting piece. Thanks for sharing. I don't have too much to add - even if I wanted to play AoS (unsure if I do) I haven't picked up anything hobby related for at least a few months due to my new job...

[Loriel]

I really liked this post and in core principle I think it has hint of truth. However I doubt only 20% of customers are gamers... Or if that is true I doubt that 20% of all the sales are from gamers. I could think that average gamer would buy more figures than average modeler...... or not . On the other hand many gamers will buy figures second hand as modelers probably wouldn't go for used figures as easily. Second hand is pretty much zero for GW (if you don't count the new person showing his figures to other as free advertisement)

Even when the most visible part of warhammer seem to be totally non existant it doesn't mean that there isn't a hobby enthutiastics modelers still. Beside one thing is for sure, many of those modelers might even consider going to take a game with only 4 page long rules that are really simple to learn compared to old huge book, with tons of conditions etc. Think about how hard it would be for someone to start the game without any experienced player around.

[Shannar, Sealord]

As many have said, that 20% figure has to be largely made up, simply because they don't do any research or data mining.

I will say that that I could just as easily play WFB/AoS, Bloodbowl, and Mordheim if I only owned 20% of my current collection of each. But the others are still mostly there to game with, just with more options. That said about 10% or so of my collection has never actually seen a game, and probably never will. So collecting is part of it, but without the games I'd have no interest in the collecting.

[Cold Phoenix]

GW seems determined to be an example of how not to run a company. Perhaps I can convince my uni lecturers to use them as an example ? Jokes aside, I look at GW, then at Mantic and Privateer Press and there's no comparison whatsoever. GW seems to be static, complacent and divorced from reality. Mantic and Privateer Press are growing, evolving and very much aware of what's going on in the world.

I increasingly agree with the people who argue that the best thing for Warhammer would be for it's IP to end up in the hands of another company, because I just don't have any faith left in GW .

[Peepster1976]

.........But the others are still mostly there to game with, just with more options. That said about 10% or so of my collection has never actually seen a game, and probably never will. So collecting is part of it, but without the games I'd have no interest in the collecting.

Couldnt agreed more..... I need a game for my collection. For me thats why AoS is no option, the game is worse than whfb (which is not a perfect also)
But as others have put it before, it need to be more than "a way to play with yout miniatures".

Without the game...... No miniatures...

[Bolt Thrower]

It's funny. I actually don't personally know anyone who is just a modeler/hobbyist. It was the game that hooked me in and then the hobby part began to grow from there. Now, with a game that doesn't hook me, I haven't hobbied in months as there isn't really a reason to.

The narrow vision of what the company should be is quite depressing.

[gromo]

Don't worry everyone. In about 5-10 years when the price of 3d printers drop substantially and the accuracy becomes MUCH better, we will all own one and print out our own models. GW is hilariously blind if they think they can rely on selling their models forever. In the future, models will be easy to come by. The game and the fluff are what will truly decide where the next generation of gamers will flock to.

[gromo]

They don't do market research but they know 20% of the customers are gamers.

If you don't buy their products you are not their customer (even if you used to buy). There is not such a thing as potential customer either.

They are adamant that they are models company and want to charge them premium. They also claim they are producing the best models in the world. Well, let's make a comparison between SM Predator and Tamiya Panther, clearly a model for collectors.

SM Prdeator costs £35 and has 96 parts. Tamiya Panter has 300+ parts and costs £20. And if you even had a pleasure of assembling Tamiya models you would know how high quality is that.

I could write more but to me management of GW is delusional, arrogant and they have no idea what kind of product they try to sell.

And you were either looking at something on sale or the inccorect scale.. Tamiya model prices line up very well with the GW prices. Also guys, something to think about..When your sales order popularity goes 40k, the hobbit, paint, warhammer fantasy, things need to change. It's the way life is. Nothing stops you from playing though, I still play Necromunda. Actually, there are faq'd books out there that are better than the original Necromunda books that provide much better balance and play, so it was actually a blessing.
If GW is a company only focused on models (which I doubt), then they will fall to 3d printers or at least lose a ton of their business. Honestly, Age of Sigmar is not that bad, the rules are not that bad, and the fluff is open right now because it is early on. The game needs to grow and I have confidence that it will.

[Aicanor]

They don't do market research but they know 20% of the customers are gamers.

This is not quite true. I was asked to do a survey regarding their new site a few months back. Nothing about whether I play or not though.
Told them I was missing the FAQs. Well, almost a year later and AoS is still missing them, so...

@gromo, there is no way dales order popularity could look like that. Not even in all thesets of 'undoubtedly true' numbers doing circles through the internet are the sales that bad.

GW is hilariously blind if they think they can rely on selling their models forever.

Maybe they are not and that is why they are trying to prepare for inevitable copyright changes that will come with that. And I do not think 3d models (from affordable printers) will reach the quality of GW plastics in that horizon. And if it was not GW, I would say injection moulds will be cheaper for longer time still.

Honestly, Age of Sigmar is not that bad, the rules are not that bad, and the fluff is open right now because it is early on.

I can not comment on rules, but the fluff is eyewateringly bad. I shudder every time I read a new name and the samples from the stories make me weep. I could ignore a bad piece of fluff in WFB because there was so much more, but AoS is made of that stuff...

[SpellArcher]

warhammer fantasy, things need to change.

The question is, why didn't GW take the correct steps to reverse falling sales a long time ago?

What those steps are of course is an open question. As is whether AoS is a good or bad move in the long run.

[Aicanor]

As is whether AoS is a good or bad move in the long run.

It even might be a good step (I am hardly their target audience), but they would have to advertise (outside the White Dwarf, that is). And they would have to lower their entry cost point, which they didn't. This way they are trying to sell to the same old and slightly distressed audience.

Edit: And they are relaying on the same audience to do the advertising for them as well...

[Prince of Spires]

warhammer fantasy, things need to change.

The question is, why didn't GW take the correct steps to reverse falling sales a long time ago?

Simple. It's the standard monopolist issue. If you hold a monopoly in a certain market and you have held it for a long time (as is the case with fantasy table top games and WH), you have a big risk of starting to believe you're invincible and people will follow whatever you do simply because you do it. And even when the world is falling around to bits around you, you'll believe it will pass you by.

And of course then there is corporate politics. Some of the steps needed to reverse the falling sales would impact someone's target somewhere. If you're head of the fantasy model development department, you're not going to lower prices of models. Why? Because in the short run it will mean that you will probably have lower revenue and profit. Even if in 2-4 years time it will mean that the player base has grown and your profits would be up, at the end of the year your manager will be at your desk asking you why you've not kept up profits. Few people have the guts and foresight to do what's good in the long run even if it's bad in the short run.

As for the 20% mentioned I actually do believe the stat, though it could be 15 or 30 of course. But at least I believe the ballpark. At least, if you have the correct definition of gamer vs hobbyist. I do think that most people don't play regularly. They get in a game maybe once a month. Maybe less. They don't have a fixed and large hobby group they meet up with regularly. This wouldn't surprise me in the slightest. Time is a precious commodity and finding enough of it to play on a regular basis is hard work. Even more so if you also have some other interests. I firmly put myself in this group. Getting in more then a game a month takes some serious planning on my part. So if you use that as your definition (most time goes in the hobby aspects, limited number of games per year), then the 20% sounds about right.

However, I do think that GW has drawn the wrong conclusion from this. I enjoy the hobby aspects of WH. Assembling and painting models is lots of fun. However, the possibility of using those models in a game is part of why I collect them. Even with only 12 games per year, the game is important. I wouldn't collect the miniatures if there was nothing that could be done with them.

Another thing GW has missed I believe is that of "the platform". Common in IT, but applicable in a lot of areas. If you control the platform on which something happens then you control what happens and have the biggest chance of bringing in most of the profits. For example, Google controls its search engine, offering it as a platform for businesses to be found. Those businesses benefit a lot from being part of the platform. But in the end, it's Google who brings in most of the profit and Google who decides where the platform goes next. Apple and the Appstore is another clear example here. The list goes on.

Why does this matter for GW? Well, WH was a platform. It was the go-to game for fantasy wargamers. If you got into the hobby then you probably started with WH. And it let you find most opponents. This gave GW the ability to launch new models which people would buy because they fit in the rules and they couldn't get anywhere else. After all, how many other companies made a skycutter equivalent? This has the additional side benefit that for uniformity of models, people would often stick to GW models.

Being in control of the platform more or less by default made GW the leader in the fantasy battle games arena. Other companies would produce miniatures to fit GW rules and given the time needed to develop a miniature, they would always be a slow follower (lead time of 3+ months easily).

By throwing out WH, GW has gotten rid of all that. By introducing a new game, they have basically reset the playing field. Any one of the game systems out there could become the dominant one, and there is no guarantee that it will be GW's system. Of course, this doesn't mean that they can't be a successful company. After all, plenty of miniature makers profitably made miniatures for WH. However, they will perhaps no longer be in control of what miniatures to make and could very well end up making miniatures for other companies systems.

Rod

[Ielthan]

I don't believe for a second that stat of just 20% of their customers being gamers. Maybe gamers who play in store, but no way is that an accurate number. Also gamers tend to buy significantly more than painters and collectors; what use does a painter have for legions of unpainted models? They're more patient.

My experience has increasingly been that aos is dying a fast and quiet death; spoken to the guys at my local gw (a larger one) and the old fantasy gaming night is dead, they're currently struggling to get an aos campaign going after the last one died from lack of interest. Of the crowd that had to queue for tables a year ago (despite there being 9 6x4's plus a demo table available) only 1 player still shows up. It used to be packed from 12-9pm, they actually took on another member of staff to cope with the demand for gaming fantasy was generating, alas those days are gone.

More than one ex-gw staff member has contacted me telling me there has been a bit of an exodus of gw staff in the UK, many at the managerial level too. They may be completely profit driven, but good luck achieving that with morale within the company at rock bottom. Many cite poor treatment, a lack of opportunity for promotion within the company beyond the managerial level as well a lack of transparency in hiring practices. It's a poorly kept secret that many gw employees harbour a level of contempt for many of their customers, that they do for their own staff as well is quite disturbing.

My relatively large gaming group has diversified into many other systems, the one common response has been that gw's claim that they make the best miniatures is nonsense, there are plenty of companies around making incredible models (often designed by ex-gw sculptors, e.g. the Perry twins), and much, much cheaper too. Check out the prices for historical gaming, in some case they're literally 1/10 the price of gw kits in terms of £/models (see Victrix models), it's amazing. GW certainly is making larger kits than anyone else at the moment, but in terms of quality of design and artistry they leave much to be desired; they look like plastic toys.

I can't see how their current business model and frankly attitude can possibly sustain itself, their active rejection of long term customers has had repercussions far beyond what they had anticipated; word of mouth matters. I know of a lot of potential new customers for aos who have been turned off it by hobbyist friends. I've seen the aos beginner days; they're empty. Can 40k alone sustain the company? They need to do something different with aos because currently it's a pretty spectacular failure; the Heaven's Gate of miniature wargaming. I guess only time will tell as to how they'll respond, at the moment it feels like it's about 30 minutes to midnight for gw.

[Lithlandis Stormcrow]

I don't believe for a second that stat of just 20% of their customers being gamers. Maybe gamers who play in store, but no way is that an accurate number. Also gamers tend to buy significantly more than painters and collectors; what use does a painter have for legions of unpainted models? They're more patient.

My experience has increasingly been that aos is dying a fast and quiet death; spoken to the guys at my local gw (a larger one) and the old fantasy gaming night is dead, they're currently struggling to get an aos campaign going after the last one died from lack of interest. Of the crowd that had to queue for tables a year ago (despite there being 9 6x4's plus a demo table available) only 1 player still shows up. It used to be packed from 12-9pm, they actually took on another member of staff to cope with the demand for gaming fantasy was generating, alas those days are gone.

More than one ex-gw staff member has contacted me telling me there has been a bit of an exodus of gw staff in the UK, many at the managerial level too. They may be completely profit driven, but good luck achieving that with morale within the company at rock bottom. Many cite poor treatment, a lack of opportunity for promotion within the company beyond the managerial level as well a lack of transparency in hiring practices. It's a poorly kept secret that many gw employees harbour a level of contempt for many of their customers, that they do for their own staff as well is quite disturbing.

My relatively large gaming group has diversified into many other systems, the one common response has been that gw's claim that they make the best miniatures is nonsense, there are plenty of companies around making incredible models (often designed by ex-gw sculptors, e.g. the Perry twins), and much, much cheaper too. Check out the prices for historical gaming, in some case they're literally 1/10 the price of gw kits in terms of £/models (see Victrix models), it's amazing. GW certainly is making larger kits than anyone else at the moment, but in terms of quality of design and artistry they leave much to be desired; they look like plastic toys.

I can't see how their current business model and frankly attitude can possibly sustain itself, their active rejection of long term customers has had repercussions far beyond what they had anticipated; word of mouth matters. I know of a lot of potential new customers for aos who have been turned off it by hobbyist friends. I've seen the aos beginner days; they're empty. Can 40k alone sustain the company? They need to do something different with aos because currently it's a pretty spectacular failure; the Heaven's Gate of miniature wargaming. I guess only time will tell as to how they'll respond, at the moment it feels like it's about 30 minutes to midnight for gw.

I wish I was as eloquent as you are. Spot on!

[SpellArcher]

You've made a good point Rod. For several years I would spend the year creating an army then use it at a single tournament. Five games, that was all. Yet as you say, I wouldn't have made those (three?) armies if there hadn't been somewhere to use them. I still saw myself as a gamer, whereas GW might consider me a collector. Perhaps it's a question of definitions.

As for how well AoS is doing, it's hard to get a general idea. We know how it's doing on the various national tournament scenes but that's a small subset of players. We can also get an impression from the forums but again, that's another (overlapping to some extent) subset. From GW contacts? Yes, maybe more accurate. But it's a multinational thing.

[Prince of Spires]

I think we will find out (roughly) how well AoS is doing in January. More or less at least. GW will publish half year results in January. They don't split out income per gaming system, so it will be a guestimate. But we can compare the sales figures between pre-AoS and post-AoS release.

And while sales aren't everything, they should give some idea about the reception of AoS. At least in terms of does the current customer base want to spend money on AoS. It could very well be that existing WH players don't like AoS at all but the general public does we just don't know about it since they don't visit forums / tournaments.

Rod

[Galharen]

The simple poll would be sufficient on GW web-site, like ''What do you prefer more/What are you willing to spend your money for? WFB 8th ed (or refreshed 9th) or AoS''.

Simple as hell. But it's too difficult for GW to make a step into players' side.
BTW, who is still checking GW site anymore

[Duranthalis]

I'm at the point where I'm done with the hobby aspect. I have a full time job, a full time wife, and a baby due in 6 months. I also have a desk covered in paint pots and half painted miniatures, and a display cabinet filled with unpainted and half painted miniatures.

Despite all this ... I do manage to get together with my regular gaming group at least twice a month, sometimes more frequently, and have time to throw down X-Wing (2-3 games in a night) or Zombicide (1-2 games in a night with the associated goofing around). Last time I played WHFB or WH40K I got in 1 game and it took an entire day, between travel time, waiting for a table, setup, and the actual game.

At this point, I'm trying to figure out which of my armies I'm going to be selling off in order to make room for other stuff.

[Shannar, Sealord]

BTW, who is still checking GW site anymore

I look at it once in awhile. To check how many come in the box, or how much I can try to charge for 2nd hand stuff that I bought as a lot and am parting out. And once in awhile as a fast answer to "what's that supposed to be?" while painting.

[Baragash]

BTW, who is still checking GW site anymore

It's like a car crash for me, I check it every week to see what absurd price they've put up this time

[John Rainbow]

I'm at the point where I'm done with the hobby aspect. I have a full time job, a full time wife, and a baby due in 6 months. I also have a desk covered in paint pots and half painted miniatures, and a display cabinet filled with unpainted and half painted miniatures.

Despite all this ... I do manage to get together with my regular gaming group at least twice a month, sometimes more frequently, and have time to throw down X-Wing (2-3 games in a night) or Zombicide (1-2 games in a night with the associated goofing around). Last time I played WHFB or WH40K I got in 1 game and it took an entire day, between travel time, waiting for a table, setup, and the actual game.

At this point, I'm trying to figure out which of my armies I'm going to be selling off in order to make room for other stuff.

I've also been selling off as much of my GW stuff as I feel I can part with. I've kept almost all of my HE but have been eBaying almost all my 40k and a lot of other fantasy stuff. I hardly have time for gaming anymore and when I do have time I'm much happier to play a couple of rounds of x-wing than any of the GW games at the moment.