9th Edition rumours

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Ricold
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Re: 9th Edition rumours

#301 Post by Ricold »

Shannar, Sealord wrote:But we'll always have 3rd ed. and warmaster.
Finishing painting my Warmaster miniatures and actually playing a game has been on my list of things to do for over a decade. Still I keep hearing from players that they think I'd prefer it to WFB, and I tend to agree.

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Re: 9th Edition rumours

#302 Post by Shannar, Sealord »

I've not doubt that you will.

My only real complaint is that it uses 10mm instead of 15mm, but that's kind of a petty thing. I'd also recommend giving it a go as it's written in the updated rulebook off the specialist site before going for some of the other "improvements" that were made for the tourney scene. A few people got a bit rules lawyery with it.
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Re: 9th Edition rumours

#303 Post by Giladis »

Warmaster along with BFG were by far the best wargames made by GW.
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Re: 9th Edition rumours

#304 Post by Swordmaster of Hoeth »

I find Warmaster far superior in therms of rules and it is amazing how the armies look like armies! I have already agreed with some friends to play when I visit them and I also plan to have a look at Ancients version of the game since I have some unpainted armies.
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Re: 9th Edition rumours

#305 Post by Francis »

Never played warmaster, but I love BFG, really excellent game. As for fantasy, I will stick with 8th, partly because I like how it feels and it is reasonably balanced at the moment, but mostly because I want to use all the units in my collection which means that I can't go back to a FP and DG less edition.

I might try to convince some of my friends to take a look at KoW though, I like the direction it is heading in, and it is really easy to keep playing in the warhammer world using those rules.
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Re: 9th Edition rumours

#306 Post by Shannar, Sealord »

Don't forget you can always add houserules for new things. It's actually really easy to do when you realize that all you have to do is make them more balanced than GW did...
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Re: 9th Edition rumours

#307 Post by Eirik »

So people are mentioning that the game could be good, but if we wanted to play something different than WHFB, we'd have bought something different. I'm in this camp.

It is curious how one sees similarities to Dungeons and Dragons again. 4th ed was their worst performance financially. They lost a lot. It was a great game, but it wasn't "Dungeons and Dragons", and many people had a problem with this. DnD was also basically the only game with a relevant market share. WHFB is not. It has to worry about being to similar to other games, like 40k.
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Re: 9th Edition rumours

#308 Post by SpellArcher »

I popped off to play 40K for a couple of years about 10 years ago and enjoyed it.

But how is it now? I'd be fine with the models I still have but how is the gameplay these days?
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Re: 9th Edition rumours

#309 Post by Daeron »

Shannar, Sealord wrote:I don't know if any of you have seen the size comparison picture that's out there right now, but it's not encouraging. I'm hoping it's photoshopped...
I see no reason it can't be true. Whether this indicates a scale increase across the board is unclear. The fluff points out that the Sigmarines are bigger than a human so the size increase could be specific to that race/faction alone.

That said... It isn't the first race to scale up. Chaos always was a bit bigger than average, but the latest ET release had even bigger infantry models with the explanation being that these were "special". The Sigmarines are made to look a little bigger, or at least on par, and are "special" too.
It could be that's why they used those two races in the starter box, because they wanted the biggest bad-ass models to strike poses.
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Re: 9th Edition rumours

#310 Post by Aicanor »

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Aelf is just alternative/old spelling of elf. Look here on wiki pageat the ethymology. Nothing really changes. Everything is awesome. :mrgreen:
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Re: 9th Edition rumours

#311 Post by cptcosmic »

seems like there is no bonus if you outmaneuver your opponent and you can shoot and fight simultaneously...

where is the strategical gameplay? it looks like the game changed to pick your strongest units, push them forward on mass, roll dice, move on to next game... might as well do a coin toss at the beginning of the game who wins, I mean why not, simplified ruleset and rules are free trolololo ](*,)

oh, since bases do not count anymore and everything is measured from the model, hell, what is stopping me to bring a flying unit with a telescopic stand that extends to, lets say 30 inches length?
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Re: 9th Edition rumours

#312 Post by Elessehta of Yvresse »

SpellArcher wrote:I popped off to play 40K for a couple of years about 10 years ago and enjoyed it.

But how is it now? I'd be fine with the models I still have but how is the gameplay these days?
It's gotten more tactical, it's now the grown up game AoS is taking over the kids area.
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Re: 9th Edition rumours

#313 Post by Grenic »

Well it sounds like we will see the Warscrolls for our existing models tomorrow.

My hope is that we see something along the lines of:

Archers:
M: 5” / Save: 6+ / Br: 7 / Wounds: 1
Melee: R: 1” / A:1 / To Hit: 4+ / To Wound: 5+ / Rend: -- / Damage: 1
Shoot: R: 24” / A:1 / To Hit: 3+ / To Wound: 5+ /Rend: -- / Damage: 1

Sea Guard:
M: 5” / Save: 5+ / Br: 7 / Wounds: 1
Melee: R: 2” / A:1 / To Hit: 4+ / To Wound: 5+ / Rend: -- / Damage: 1
Shoot: R: 18” / A:1 / To Hit: 3+ / To Wound: 5+ / Rend: -- / Damage: 1

White Lions:
M: 5” / Save: 4+ / Br: 7 / Wounds: 1
Melee: R: 2” / A:1 / To Hit: 3+ / To Wound: 2+ / Rend: -1 / Damage: 1

Swordmasters:
M: 5” / Save: 5+ / Br: 7 / Wounds: 1
Melee: R: 2” / A:2 / To Hit: 3+ / To Wound: 3+ / Rend: -1 / Damage: 1

Phoenix Guard:
M: 5” / Save: 5+ / Br: 8 / Wounds: 1
Melee: R: 2” / A:1 / To Hit: 3+ / To Wound: 4+ / Rend: -- / Damage: 1

Of course some will likely have special rules around their weapons and/or armour (e.g. White Lion Pelts).

Any other guesses?

[Edit: Fixed Rend stat for WL, SM, and PG]
Last edited by Grenic on Fri Jul 03, 2015 10:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 9th Edition rumours

#314 Post by SpellArcher »

Just read an interesting bit in last week's White Dwarf:

"More than 30 years ago Warhammer was born from the passionate desire to let collectors (my emphasis) use their Citadel miniatures in epic tabletop battles.

Understandable I guess that they fail to mention the main reason people already had those models. To play games.
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Re: 9th Edition rumours

#315 Post by Galharen »

Ok, so here are High Elves rules:

http://www.games-workshop.com/resources ... ves-en.pdf

Can anyone explain me now what is playable?:D

How can I build a roster?
How can I decide if the unit hast banner/musician/champ.
How can I choose magic items for example on high elf prince?
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Re: 9th Edition rumours

#316 Post by Shannar, Sealord »

You're thinking way to hard.
How can I build a roster?
Just take whatever "war scrolls" you want
How can I decide if the unit hast banner/musician/champ.
If you want one (or apparently more) just include the appropriate models
How can I choose magic items for example on high elf prince?
Just pick the ones you want.

This isn't really a game, it's a way to play with your toys....
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Re: 9th Edition rumours

#317 Post by Galharen »

I don't get it. At all.

How can you play a strategy game without rules concerning building your army?
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Re: 9th Edition rumours

#318 Post by Ielthan »

Galharen wrote:I don't get it. At all.

How can you play a strategy game without rules concerning building your army?
Yeah i think that's the point, it isn't really a strategy game, like Shannar said it's just a way to play with your toys.

Reading through this and realising without points values it's all a bit redundant. Like how do you even know what would be fair match up? I picked up on the same questions you did Galharen, equipment options seem so ambiguous. It feels very bland, what have they done to magic,? 3 spells is now like a big deal? 2 of them are the same ones everyone else has too. It all seems so samey.

Could you please put a link up to where they are on the gw website I couldnt find them, would like to compare with the other armies, cheers.

With no mechanic for heroes to join units, it just seems like quite a lot of them are pretty redundant, won't they just get shot immediately?
Last edited by Ielthan on Fri Jul 03, 2015 10:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 9th Edition rumours

#319 Post by Galharen »

Just click on any unit from whatever army you want, at the bottom you can see the link to download the rules.
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Re: 9th Edition rumours

#320 Post by Ielthan »

Cheers.

The phoenixes look pretty ridiculous. I'm very (pleasantly) surprised that the special characters all made it into this. Doesn't really make any sense but I'd imagine this is a very stop gap list not intended to be used for very long. Should we make a new thread for first impressions/reports, not only on the high elf stuff but the armies in general?
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Re: 9th Edition rumours

#321 Post by Swordmaster of Hoeth »

I have only read HE warscrolls so far but I must admit they look intriguing. It is the first time when I am genuinely interested in playing a game simply to see how it works.

I don't know if they are going to provide any system for "points" but I have read on twitter that people are thinking about using the total wounds number as a substitute.

Not sure how it would work though. There would be no incentive to have goblins over orcs for example. Or other things for that matter unless they have some useful abilities.

The main thing to remember is that it is not meant to be a game for tournaments. The rules are an addition to the models, so it is up to you, the hobbyist, how you decide to construct the army. And how do you agree on handling the game.

I think, however, that the scrolls helped me reach an interesting decision. I am now going to happily continue with my modelling projects. I will stay with square bases as they don't matter but in doing so I can keep playing 8th edition or try Kings of War soon too! :)
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Re: 9th Edition rumours

#322 Post by Galharen »

Swordmaster of Hoeth wrote: I think, however, that the scrolls helped me reach an interesting decision. I am now going to happily continue with my modelling projects. I will stay with square bases as they don't matter but in doing so I can keep playing 8th edition or try Kings of War soon too! :)
That's the point, we can get back to painting;)
What is your first impression?
I like the fact, that every unit seems to be usefull.
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Re: 9th Edition rumours

#323 Post by Ielthan »

Galharen wrote:
Swordmaster of Hoeth wrote: I think, however, that the scrolls helped me reach an interesting decision. I am now going to happily continue with my modelling projects. I will stay with square bases as they don't matter but in doing so I can keep playing 8th edition or try Kings of War soon too! :)
That's the point, we can get back to painting;)
What is your first impression?
I like the fact, that every unit seems to be usefull.

Yeah the hobby side of this will definitely take precedence over gaming now. Having a flick through the other armies, and suffice to say High Elves will definitely be on the lower end of the power scale sadly. Although with no points I guess it's a case of just chuck more stuff on. All chaos wizards get a summon daemon prince spell that casts on an 8. That daemon prince can also be a wizard who can then summon another and so on, in the same phase as far as I can tell. Fun times...

It's very much aimed at children, e.g. nagash has hand of dust as a spell, you hold a dice in one hand, hold both hand out then your opponent picks a hand. If he doesn't pick the hand with the dice the targeted model dies. There's also that silly thing about keeping a straight face to get some bonus in the dragon formation for the high elves.

The whole things seems very very basic tactically, but keeping track of all the abilities will be tricky.
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Re: 9th Edition rumours

#324 Post by Shannar, Sealord »

With no mechanic for heroes to join units, it just seems like quite a lot of them are pretty redundant, won't they just get shot immediately?
For that to happen someone would have to play the game, and for the life of me I can't see why anyone would bother...
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Re: 9th Edition rumours

#325 Post by Swordmaster of Hoeth »

@ Galharen

I like a few things I have picked up so far. The wounds on monsters affect their abilities, same with how many shots war machine can unleash depending how many crew members are there. The fact there is no more 10" from the back is great! I like that you have simplified to hit and to wound and to save rolls. It reminds me of Warmaster. I haven't seen better save than 3+ and heavy cavalry seems to have 4+ only which I think is good as even a bolt thrower crew can now hurt the dragon. :lol:

I think it is extremely important to remember that it is not a game for tournaments. It has completely different mechanics but the scrolls made me, for the first time, want to ty it out simply to see how it really works. And yes, it does seem all units have uses.

I am still not sold on the skirmish style but somebody pointed out one important thing. The models have to be no more than 1" apart. That means you can expand formation to block the enemy and contract it to have more models to fight even before piling up. I still miss the flanks and rear and I am not happy with rolling every time who is going to be first.

In general, they have my attention and I am going to wait and see what happens next without assuming they will actually make a balanced game for tournament plays. But as I said, I have one set of miniatures I can play with in at least 3 games now.

@ Ielthan

These "rules" are simply silly and it is clear at what kind of customer they are aimed at. The beauty of the situation is that the company wants me to buy their product and they don't care much how I am going to use it. So if they don't care about the balance then I am happy to play that game with people who are not going to abuse the rule set. Which probably means that I will try it out for casual games only. At this moment I am simply curious about mechanics because I think that if you are going to play it with a person who does not care about the silly part there might be some interesting moves to be made in the game.

And I am intrigued to see if that is really that basic in terms of tactics or not. It might work for me or not (although I don't like skirmish systems) but at least I will have my opinion based on real experience. I can theory hammer only that much, I need to do some tests :)
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Re: 9th Edition rumours

#326 Post by Axiem »

Very interesting thus far. However, I think it is incomplete. For instance, consider this paragraph:

"First you should decide in which of the seven Mortal Realms the battle will take place. For example, you might decide that your battle will take place in the Realm of Fire. Sometimes you’ll need to know this in order to use certain abilities."

What are the names of the seven realms and what characteristics do they have? I have yet to see any references to this in the army rules. If anyone's found one, please let me know. Also, there's a whole sub-section which hasn't be addressed: unit types. I would have expected this to be in the core rules, but specifically, there are entry's like "Totem" which for BSBs seems to have some significance, although I don't see references.

This makes me hopeful that there's something else in the works.
I like a few things I have picked up so far. The wounds on monsters affect their abilities, same with how many shots war machine can unleash depending how many crew members are there. The fact there is no more 10" from the back is great! I like that you have simplified to hit and to wound and to save rolls. It reminds me of Warmaster. I haven't seen better save than 3+ and heavy cavalry seems to have 4+ only which I think is good as even a bolt thrower crew can now hurt the dragon.
I like this a lot. It's a cool change indeed.
I am still not sold on the skirmish style but somebody pointed out one important thing. The models have to be no more than 1" apart. That means you can expand formation to block the enemy and contract it to have more models to fight even before piling up. I still miss the flanks and rear and I am not happy with rolling every time who is going to be first.
There's also a real benefit for being ranked. Attacks have a short range, generally 1-3". If you're skirmishing and you charge a very tight unit, you'll get obliterated just on the fact that you can't bring as many models into combat with a 3" move as you can when they're already tightly formed.
I like the fact, that every unit seems to be usefull.
This is what I'm unsure of. Yes, all the units seem to have different benefits, which is cool and unique, but I'm unable to rationalize why you would even taken footmen instead of all characters on monsters. If the only consideration in army creation, is model count, why not take the maximum number of wounds per model?

If there's something Kings-of-War-like that limits number of heroes / infantry or you can only have as many heroes as your opponent, then it's fine. Like I said though, I still have the suspicion that there's more to come.

EDIT:

Here's another one:

"A High Elf Archmage on Dragon is a wizard. He can attempt to cast one spell in each of your own hero phases, and attempt to unbind two spells in each enemy hero phase. An Archmage with a Book of Hoeth can attempt to cast two different spells in each of your hero phases instead of just one, and attempt to unbind two spells in each enemy hero phase."

No other reference to Book of Hoeth. If it didn't matter, and it was simply a "take what you want," then why the reference? Surely, they'd just have written something like "Archmages [omit or not: have Books of Hoeth], which lets them cast two different spells each turn."

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Re: 9th Edition rumours

#327 Post by Mentheus of Chrace »

The first paragraph of each unit description indicates their equipment options.
White Lion * Aestyrion * Griffon Knight

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Re: 9th Edition rumours

#328 Post by John Rainbow »

Mentheus of Chrace wrote:The first paragraph of each unit description indicates their equipment options.
And you just decide what it has? So surely every unit has every possible upgrade?
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Re: 9th Edition rumours

#329 Post by Shannar, Sealord »

John Rainbow wrote:
Mentheus of Chrace wrote:The first paragraph of each unit description indicates their equipment options.
And you just decide what it has? So surely every unit has every possible upgrade?
Why not? It's not as if it's a balance issue. They all cost zero points anyway. And you can have more than one standard/musician as well.
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Re: 9th Edition rumours

#330 Post by Eirik »

It looks like a fun game, and surely someone will come up with a system for it. Also, even though I don't know all the rules yet, it looks like we finally have a situation where sword-masters are better than white lions.
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