New BRB FAQ Up - Herohammer!

[Curu Olannon]

TL;DR - The End Times 50% for lords and heroes are now BRB erratad. Here we go Herohammer! Also, any wizard can choose the lore of undeath:

http://www.blacklibrary.com/Downloads/P ... OKv1.9.pdf

[Lord Anathir]

Lets bring out the war machines!

[Feeblings]

Yeah I recently saw. It's possible now to fit that Star Dragon of yours in a 2000 point list now. It looks harsh.

Prince on Star Dragon: general, shield, Star Lance, Dragonhelm, Golden Crown of Atrazar, The other Trickster's Shard, 598 

Mage: Dispel Scroll, Level 2 Wizard, High Magic, elven steed 155
Mage on Elven Steed: Level 2, High Magic, 130 
Noble: BSB, BotWD, shield, lance, heavy armour, elven steed with Ithilmar barding 172
Noble: on Ithilmar Barded Elven Steed: heavy armour, Enchanted Shield, Ogre Blade, luckstone 139

13x Silver Helms: FC, shields 329
5x Ellyrian Reavers: bows, spears 95
5x Ellyrian Reavers: bows 85

Frostheart Phoenix

Great Eagle

1994 points

[Lord Anathir]

anyone have a WOC book?

[sparkytrypod]

WOC will be able to prob do an 8 model army now!!!

[Lord Anathir]

chariots are core? I have editions jumbled up in my head.

[SpellArcher]

Chariots are Core.

The question is whether any tournaments will choose to ignore these changes.

[sparkytrypod]

its probably an early glimpse of 9th IMO so no going back

[Ferny]

The question is whether any tournaments will choose to ignore these changes.

I've just asked that of one I'm going to next month...

[bloody nunchucks]

I would say that this is a testing ground for the new 9th book about to hit us next year. They want to see what problems arise so that they can fix them before they release the book.

[wisetiger7]

...Also, any wizard can choose the lore of undeath...

Except Teclis. And the Loremaster.

[RE.Lee]

Loving the change - Star Dragon and Loremaster duo FTW!

[SpellArcher]

Someone should compile a list of the bentest new builds.

"This is the filth you'll be playing against:"

[Axiem]

Ignoring the impulse to a knee-jerk reaction, I actually like the changes, and think it bodes well for 9th.

Firstly, this is going to cut down in the time it takes to play games, which I feel can only be a good thing. While playing with large armies is awfully fun, the physical time it takes to play against an all-skink player, for instance, is too high. There's also the fact that if games get shorter, tournaments will require you to play more games, which helps to find the truly 'best' player in the room rather than the 'luckiest,' (quotes very much intentional).

Secondly, point deflation has kept us putting more and more models on the table with each edition, without any consequence. At the current rate, next edition edition or two might have had us putting 4k worth of models on the table, in 5-6th edition terms. If this was an objective of GW, which I feel it was, mission accomplished.

Finally, on a very selfish level, High Elves benefit from these changes quite a bit. With all the access to fliers, monsters, magic, and Bolt Throwers we're setup well to weather the storm. I'm looking forward to playing the game in a different and new way.

Axiem

[wisetiger7]

Someone should compile a list of the bentest new builds.

"This is the filth you'll be playing against:"

Anything with Nagash? I mean you already could in End Times games, but now its all but legal in all games. Imagine a 1,000 point model in a 2,000 point game, potentially summoning 2,040 points worth of models each turn. Imagine Nagash raising a 650 point Mortarch each turn.

Oh this is a fun one. Imagine a bunch of L1's all with undeath, in an army composed entirely of zombies, all casting Ryze, making more units of zombies, and raising more wizard characters that choose spells from Lore of Vampires and casting Invocation of Nehek on all the units of zombies. 2d6+wizard level worth of models to each unit within 6"/12"/18". Ryze/IoN spam is gonna suck.

Imagine a Night Goblin army or a Skaven army with a bunch of cheap L1s spamming zombies.

I already played a game with my wood elves vs my TK friend who fielded Arkhan with a Hierotitan. He didn't even commit Arkhan to close combat and still raised 5-600+ points worth of models every turn. Luckily he only summoned more TK units, trying to stay true to TK, so I didn't have to deal with blood knights or crap like that. I had a balanced 'friendly' army as I was preparing for a 'friendly' tournament. We calculated at the end of turn 5 (in our 2,800 point game) that I had killed close to 4,000 points worth of stuff. Even he said I played brilliantly, general-wise, and still he would have just raised another 5-600 points next turn. So we just called it. And since summoned units don't count toward victory points, it's just not fun playing against that crap. I have no frickin idea why they did this.

[Sackree]

I see a StarDragon list getting a massive boost now, we can field Lvl4's alongside him!

[NexS]

0/10
Do not like.

[sparkytrypod]

I see a StarDragon list getting a massive boost now, we can field Lvl4's alongside him!

double star dragon plus 2 lvl 2 high mages if you are playing 2500

[Swordmaster of Hoeth]

Some people will simply tweak their existing armies so that they can have the equipment they always wanted but could not get it because they were 5pts above the 25% allowance.

Some will definitely embrace the new rules and will get as many powerful characters as they can. It will be hard to call these "armies".

If it were just for the change in characters allowance then it might not be that dramatic change to the game. The bigger thing is the fact everybody can now summon troops and I am told these do not give the opponent victory points when destroyed. So, what stops you from bringing 75% heroes, 25% core and then create troops during the game?

What is more it might be just the beginning of the changes we may see in the near future.

[pk-ng]

I see a StarDragon list getting a massive boost now, we can field Lvl4's alongside him!

double star dragon plus 2 lvl 2 high mages if you are playing 1500

ahh no. core requirements not met

[sparkytrypod]

I see a StarDragon list getting a massive boost now, we can field Lvl4's alongside him!

double star dragon plus 2 lvl 2 high mages if you are playing 1500

ahh no. core requirements not met

Sorry 2.5k, edited above!

[Hinge]

I would say that this is a testing ground for the new 9th book about to hit us next year. They want to see what problems arise so that they can fix them before they release the book.

I am very skeptical this is the case. The New wood elf faq is a complete joke. Actually the Nagash faq is no where what is need and they left out DE, Dwarfs and LM faqs. They have been consistently ignoring the current issues of their game for the last year and half.

The cynical side of me says this is GW's way of pushing expensive (as in $) single models (which look great).

Hinge

[Axiem]

If you want to try posting up a list, or talking about how to take advantage of these changes, I made a thread in Tactics for just such a purpose.

Linky: http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=67444

Axiem

[Furion]

The amount of restrictions actually required = 0

The maximum amount of power dice is fixed, so it will be very rare to see 3rd L4 caster. Even if, my bet is that it is not the most powerful roster.

The maximum number of magic items is fixed, so it will be very rare to see 2nd, not to mention 3rd fighty lord. Even if - it is once again a shot in the knee.

Maybe Daemon Princes need some comping, since they can be efficient with little / no magic items. Nothing other comes to my mind.

Keep calm, keep playing and don't panic.

cheers
Furion

[Swordmaster of Hoeth]

I would say that this is a testing ground for the new 9th book about to hit us next year. They want to see what problems arise so that they can fix them before they release the book.

I am very skeptical this is the case. The New wood elf faq is a complete joke. Actually the Nagash faq is no where what is need and they left out DE, Dwarfs and LM faqs. They have been consistently ignoring the current issues of their game for the last year and half.

The cynical side of me says this is GW's way of pushing expensive (as in $) single models (which look great).

Hinge

I agree with Hinge on that. It has nothing to do with testing grounds. After all, they don't need to do any research anyway, they know what is the best all by themselves

[NexS]

I agree with Hinge on that. It has nothing to do with testing grounds. After all, they don't need to do any research anyway, they know what is the best all by themselves

Ah, yeah... I remember reading that. They guy is a complete frigging idiot. Quote me on it.

[Prince of Spires]

Of course, the big shocker here is that GW actually updated an FAQ and release not one but 2 new FAQs. Bit sad that the 2 new FAQs are probably completely useless. And that I will probably ignore the BRB update, unless my opponent specifically asks to include it.

@Furion: it is already rare to see a second level 4 caster when people can bring it. They're not going to bring a third. I think what people are more worried about it the unbalanced lists people can take that include fighting characters.

As someone mentions, Nagash in a 2000 pts game is just not fun. Unless you are bringing the gunline Lord Anathir mentioned earlier. Otherwise, realistically, what would you do against him?

And then there are lists like double lord dragon. You can easily fit a star and a moon dragon in a 2400 pts list. And there is enough equipment out there to kit out both of them. Again, what would you do against such a list unless you either bring your own or have a gunline at your disposal?

And it's not that I think that all these lists are unbeatable. But they are very polarised matchups. Which can be very one sided and not fun. Especially if you actually want to see a 'real' army on the table.

Rod

[Francis]

Actually you can fit 2 star dragons into a 2400p match if you don't bother to much with the equipment of the guys on top and keep it to a bare minimum of 4++ and some other stuff.

If combined profiles become a thing then I can see 2 SDs, one with charmed shield, one with golden crown and both with 4++ become a standard high elf list. I can't see anything other than a full dwarven gunline and some WoC and DoC filth that could deal with this.

[Curu Olannon]

If combined profiles become a thing then I can see 2 SDs, one with charmed shield, one with golden crown and both with 4++ become a standard high elf list. I can't see anything other than a full dwarven gunline and some WoC and DoC filth that could deal with this.

Mindrazor? Purple sun? Pit of Shades? Similar new spells? Combat resolution? Light Councils? Ironblasters? Steam Tanks?

The Star Dragon is strong, no doubt, but predicting an entire meta when things change up *this* much is extremely hard, to the point where it's futile without playtesting.

[SpellArcher]

Just think of all the cannon!

My poor Treeman.