2 Dragon Mage questions.

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mencius
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2 Dragon Mage questions.

#1 Post by mencius »

Question one: When rolling for the dragonmage spells the option of taking sword like you would fire ball is this in ADDITION to the ability to take the fire ball or does it replace it. OR even better can you replace 2 spells for both. :P Either way how exactly does it work. Id like to think you can replace one of your spells for the FB as you would normally OR the sword.

Question two: How does victory points work with this guys. I just played goblins the other day and got my mage shot off the topof my dragon by a single shot with a stupid 40 pt spear chukk! and my dragon sat there trying to breath fire on stuff 20 inchs away. :( Anyway my question is how does VP work with this model. Since the mount isnt a seperate choice unlike other mounts it makes me wonder how that works. Surely my opponent doesnt get 435 pts for killing my squishy (though i did give the 435) Id like to think its half the model but as far as i can see it probably counts as dead.

Sorry if these are stupid questions. By the way! DM out of action turn 1, i still pulled off a minor victory!! :D

Thanks.
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Re: 2 Dragon Mage questions.

#2 Post by dabber »

mencius wrote:Question one: When rolling for the dragonmage spells the option of taking sword like you would fire ball is this in ADDITION to the ability to take the fire ball or does it replace it. OR even better can you replace 2 spells for both.
The rules are not clear. I think you can swap into both. You can argue for either outcome.
mencius wrote:Question two:
See the GW High Elf FAQ.
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Musashi
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#3 Post by Musashi »

1. Arguably, both, and since it isn't stated, assume that you can.

2. Monstrous mounts are calculated separately.
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#4 Post by Chracian »

Question 1: It doesn't specifically state that you can't take fireball instead of another spell, but I think in the interests of background, it would make sense that you can only swap for flaming sword...this is the "warrior mage" rule, after all.
Question 2: THe sun dragon is worth 230 points, the basic dragon mage is 120 points (then any other upgrades/equipment on top)
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Arhain
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#5 Post by Arhain »

1.) I have always advocated that you can choose either, as it is arguably worded that way.

2.) Everyone is dead on.
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#6 Post by Minsc »

Question 1: It doesn't specifically state that you can't take fireball instead of another spell, but I think in the interests of background, it would make sense that you can only swap for flaming sword...this is the "warrior mage" rule, after all.
I'm with Charican on this one.
On pg.63 in the "Warrior Mage" rules, its the wording "may choose to swap one of the spells rolled for Flaming Sword of Rhuin ,rather than with Fireball as normal", that does it for me. I'm pretty sure that RAIwise you can only go with the Sword, so thats how I play it.

Yes, it could've been worded better; "instead of / in addition too" would've been more clearer, but I'd say "rather than" sounds more too me like you can't opt too choose fireball.
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#7 Post by Gildor777 »

Minsc, you left out bolding the word "may" in that passage. That would imply to me that you have the option of switching for the sword, but that you do not have to. Barring that, normal rules of choosing magic spells should apply, meaning you can take fireball.
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#8 Post by PapaElf »

Warrior Mage Rule - "When selecting spells prior to the battle, Dragon Mages may choose to swap one of the spells for "Flaming Sword of Rhuin", rather then with "Fireball" as normal.

The way I read the "Warrior Mage Rule", it seems clear that one can swap one spell for either "Flaming Sword" (the exception) or "Fireball" (the normal case). The operative words appear to me, to be "may choose".
Last edited by PapaElf on Sat Mar 28, 2009 5:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#9 Post by PapaElf »

Sorry, the more that I think about it, it is not all that clear. It could just as well be, "may choose "Flaming Sword" or nothing".
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#10 Post by mencius »

Hahaha, wow. Thank you for your responces but i must admit ive already comprehended everything written in all the ways you have mentioned which is why i came here. Its still completely confusing. Does MAY refer to the rule as a whole or the sword? If it says may then id assume you can rule out this rule altogether which would allow you to choose fireball as normal, but im confused. If its considered a loop hole i wont use it. Regardless i need an answer, i may have to g to GW :S. Hmm...

Ohh thanks for the VP clarification :D

Cheers.
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#11 Post by Candy Chesthair »

"When selecting spells prior to the battle, Dragon Mages may choose to swap one of the spells for "Flaming Sword of Rhuin", rather then with "Fireball" as normal."

The solution is in the final part of the sentence:

may choose to swap one of the spells for "Flaming Sword of Rhuin", rather then with "Fireball" as normal

... may choose to swap one of the spells for "Flaming Sword of Rhuin", rather then with "Fireball" as normal.

So instead of what you normally get, you get this possible (the word may) swap.

The fact that you can swap is indicated by the word may. The fact you can swap to the sword and not to the fireball is indicated by the words rather then .... as normal.

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#12 Post by Minsc »

Minsc, you left out bolding the word "may" in that passage
If it wouldn't say "may", then RAW:ers would argue that you must choose Flaming Sword. In all lores, you "may" swap one spell you roll for the #1 spell in the lore (unless ofcourse they already rolled for it.)
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#13 Post by mencius »

Thanks Candy, i think i may understand it now, but either way i still think it could have been worded more clearly.
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Arhain
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#14 Post by Arhain »

It's still debatable, and something that I feel needs to be FAQed (won't happen). It can be argued both ways, I see perfectly clearly how you guys are interpreting the rules. However some of us interpret it a different way.

You may do X rather than Y as normal.

This sentence implies a choice, that you MAY choose to do X rather than Y as normal. You don't necessarily have to. I MAY choose to. It is one of those rules that has to be looked at in whole, rather than breaking it down to "rather than Y as normal". Nothing says that you cannot defer to Fireball, as per the normal rules.
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#15 Post by mencius »

Something tells me you like swapping a spell for fire ball sometimes arhain? So is that how people are going to play it? Or what? Im quite confused. I may have to poll it.
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