babalubeaga wrote:I would guess that focus firing w/ 2 RBTs and some archers would do the trick after 3+ rounds, the only problem comes when they bring more than 3-4 of these. We run out of RBTs (even with 4) at the 2:1 ratio and also having Terradons and Skinks ambushing our RBT crews.
With 4 total stegadons, a LM player could still have plenty of room for at least 2 big blocks of saurus, who are vastly superior to our spears. The spread shot would be vital to taking a few ranks off that unit to soften it up before combat.
Which brings up another dilemma:
Do you shoot saurus blocks with the spread shot or stegadons with the big bolt?
Even with max RBTs and taking into account LoS restrictions, it would appear that on average you could take down a stegadon about every other turn with 3 RBTs.
But would a saurus spear block be a better target assuming your opponent had 2 blocks of spears and 4 total stegadons (1 or 2 of which will probably be EotGs)?
In 6th edition I learned to target the support units. Ideally you can elimiate all support units, leaving the big blocks free to be redirected (eagles) to be either ignored or flanked. Winning or losing was based on how well support units were taken out. For this reason I liked 6th edition spears because if they flanked with ranks usually they'd break stuff. The problem now, with lizardmen and more or less all armies, is that there are too many support units and they are too resilient to shooting (or cant be shot) for this to work out. It started with wood elves... since then: treemen, anvil of doom, steam tank, star dragon, varghulfs, flesh hounds, stegadons, hellcannons. Every army bar orcs got something fast and capable of soaking up damage (except anvil of doom which screws up your battlefield control a different way).
Honestly I havent been able to change my playing style, I still try to do things the same way, but with less success now. Supposedly with ASF we're supposed to take charges, instead of redirect and avoid all charges like we did in 6th.
As for stegadons vs terradons, the rbt should focus on stegadons and archers on the terradons (archers are underrated a bit, they do have their uses). Knights and fast units can be positioned to stop terradons from landing in rockthrowing distance.
Its not that easy ofcourse, terrain and his magic gets in the way, and hes got other support units, and solo mounted scar vet heros/bsbs which are very good at taking out knights or tying up infantry. Scar vet bsbs are the best at holding up ranked infantry solo. With coldblooded, high toughness and armor save I had one hold up fully ranked spears with a bsb for a few turns until a stegadon hit it. He fought off +6 static combat res!
the best lizardmen army I've seen to date: has a slann, 2 units of 5 terradons, 3 stegadons, one with the engine, and 2 scar vets on cold ones, one with a bsb. The rest of the army are skinks that get in the way. I saw it castle against dark elf monster mash and win... It has solutions for everything and no weakness. Even against gunlines the 5+ ward save allows stuff to make it to the other side.
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The star dragon is a good list, but I'm not convinced it has the solutions to everything. For example, my generic high elf list with lvl4/lvl2 is capable of stopping the dragon lord, shooting the rbt and redirecting the dragon princes. Its not an invincible list. I dont think it can beat dual WLCs, which to my knowledge Mr. Spiers has yet to face with it.
What it does strongly is tackle the current the top lists in the metagame well, and that is why Mr. Spiers is an exceptional general.
Papaelf, it is true other players copy the list, but when they play in smaller tournaments or friendlies, other not so hardcore lists come out, like the high elf one or the skaven one I mentioned. In entirely convinced my friend's non thorek dwarf list would destroy that high elf list, no matter who uses the high elves.
For the dwarfs, there was only this. Hammerson met Grombrindal’s gaze, and the White Dwarf nodded slowly. If it must be done, let it be done well. Whether they were dead or alive, that was the only way dwarfs knew how to do anything.
And Grombrindal said "10 from the back, yeah?"